... But... there was a time, back in his prime. If his genetics were good back then... his sons and grandsons are now passing along the good genes.
Great posts! I agree with most of what has been said. Another point that I didn't see mentioned is that a lot of the time the most dominant buck is not the one with the most magnificent set of antlers. Sometimes it might be a big, blocky, 8 pointer with a set of thick, sturdy and somewhat narrow spread antlers built for fighting. I've seen it. Another thing I've seen is that during the seeking phase the 3 1/2's and some 4 1/2's are doing the most running, posturing, fighting. By the time the does start coming into heat some of the older boys step in and take over. Much easied to take on a battle wheary opponent. Some of the biggest bucks that I've seen are spotted between Nov.24th and Dec. 15th. They may not be the strongest but they're the smartest!
Some of it might come from people believing a spike will be a spike the rest of his life. I mirror the thoughts on not knowing the potential until they get older and bigger. Question for the people that cull. What antler characteristic are you trying to remove? Or is it the occasional buck that doesn't show yearly progression and how old do you let them get until you decide its a cull buck?
There are a lot of variables in there. The doe, the buck, but genetics are sealed right from the start and age has nothing to do with that. How they turn out is something unknown. Breeding horses, like deer, one would have to speculate on the traits of both the doe and buck to achieve the best outcomes but wild deer on public land is nature at work there. My two cents..
I don't see how "culling" would work unless the deer is at least 3 1/2 years old. Until then, you just don't know. He could add 40% in a year.
I figure 15% to 20% from a 3 1/2 to a 4 1/2. QDMA has a chart for this. I feel it is pretty close. The attached deer I feel is 3 1/2 and total gross is around 128". He should gain 19" to 25" for next year and be in the high 140's low 150's.
I think you're taking the people who are saying this entirely too literal. Those saying it are likely implying that if they were to let a good genetic specimen live longer he'd be more likely to breed more ladies, thus improving the overall health of the deer herd. In other words, if one were to shoot a 2 year old that's 150 inches he may have only given his seed to 3 or 4 girls. But, if one let him live to age 5 let's say, that number would be double the ladies he was able to breed.
And at that point, why bother to cull at all? He's already bred numerous times for the last couple of years and would have numerous offspring at that point... Including does also passing on his genes...
Mike, I'm referring to the people that specifically believe that older bucks make better young bucks. I know, hard to believe that people actually think that, however, there are a LOT of people that believe this. I'm talking about people that want the older deer to breed because they have bigger racks, and they think that will improve the size of their future bucks.
Like mentioned, according to QDMA deer add inches on a curve with the biggest jump taking place early. But you could have a 3.5 year old buck explode. My brothers for example added probably 60 inches from 3.5 to 4.5. Then stayed relatively the same size at 5.5.
Actually the studies they have done on the subject says the 1.5 and 2.5 year olds are breeding much more then you think. You have to keep in mind... there are more 1.5 and 2.5 year old bucks then there are 4.5 and 5.5 year old buck. The older bucks are not doing the majority of the breeding. I'll see if I can find some studies today after I get done hunting this morning. Pretty interesting. Tim
I would love to read them. Earlier this year, I watched a mature (3.5/4.5yo) buck hounding a doe all afternoon. We saw him twice...Once he was alone with her and once he had two other younger bucks "following". There might be more younger bucks, but the mature ones are still in control. Now if there are a surplus of does availible, then yes, they will have a greater chance to breed.
Im also curious to read this. The younger bucks have a numbers advantage but lack in experience. Older bucks know when the does are ready and how to efficiently check every doe in the area. It also doesn't take much effort on their part to run off a 1.5/2.5 year old buck. At least that's how I see it here. Maybe the younger bucks breed more with the yearlings just coming into heat later on?
I think younger bucks breed more in high doe population areas. If the ratio is closer then the mature bucks would have a stranglehold.
