Started bowhunting buying the cheapest arrows i could find on the shelf. Got educated about the importance of arrows, and fell into Troy “Ranch Fairy” Fowlers school of heavy, high FOC. As a target archer and hunter, i want a singular arrow build that kills animals and dots at long range. Bottom line: Whats the lightest arrow I can use to kill animals? I want to shoot foam at 100 yards and am moving to CO in January, so mule deer and prong horn at up to 50 yards. Right now i shoot 600 grain(total weight, 29” easton axis 260s with a 50 grain half out insert and 4 fletch AAE Max Stealth. With my CBE Hybrid Engage sight, i cant shoot past 70 yards without clearance issues, and the pin gaps are massive. Great success on whitetail with heavy arrows and high FOC, no doubt it destroys bone. But if Hanes and Bowmar use one arrow to shoot 120+ yards and bomb elk, why not me? 70lbs, 28” draw hoyt defiant pro. Is 400 grains enough for the average guy who cant hit a penny at 80 yards? If I’m a little forawrd, can 350 grains get through a big buck’s shoulder? The Ashby reports only say “go heavy” not “this is how light you can go” Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
interesting... using Black Eagle Archery charts, you should be shooting a 300 spine arrow. Their X-Impact shafts are 8.1 GPI. So you are looking at about a 225gr bare shaft. Throw in a 15gr aluminum insert, a 100gr BH, 20grs in fletching and nock; at you're at about 360gr TAW. Throw that in to a KE/Momentum calculator in the internet with your bow's IBO and you will have a good idea if that will be a set up you can live with. I can tell you with 435gr TAW I have broken both shoulders of a heavy Midwestern buck at 50 yards. That being said I am a heavy arrow convert. I can shoot my current set up to 80 yards all day with 520gr TAW and my bow is IBO 340fps. I have no idea what FPS I am at now but it's south of 250. I can't slide my Fast Eddy any lower without stripping the vanes. I kind of experimented and found out I can use the bottom of the reticle as a 100 yard "pin" but I only do that on the range.
Shooting ultra-heavy arrows "just in case" is like driving a tank to work in case you get in a car wreck. I personally believe anything between 400 and 500 grains for an adult male bowhunter is more than capable of getting the job done on any big game animal in North America without giving up a ton of speed and worrying about pin gaps. Although I also think shooting animals at super far distances is stupid too. And I think you need to keep these dang kids off my lawn. They're gonna give me the COVID.
Dude if I could drive a tank to work I would. I've often joked about needing a spring loaded cross tie "sweeper" on the front of my truck to clear idiots. Kind of a commuter pin ball flipper if you will. Sent from my SM-G960U using Bowhunting.com Forums mobile app
The last two years my set up was about 425 grains. Two years ago I shot a doe at 50 yards and it stuck in her back side shoulder with a expandable. Last year I switched to fixed blades and the 3 deer I shot were all pass through but much closer. This year I added 75 grains to the front of my arrow and am sticking with a fixed blade. I think if you have a good sharp fixed blade you will have no issues with 400-500 grains like Justin said. Sent from my iPhone using Bowhunting.com Forums
The simple answer is to build two sets of arrows. But sorry, here's my personal opinion as well. Every elk I've shot in my lifetime has been with an arrow between 380-420 grains. Every single one was a complete pass through unless the near or far side shoulder was hit. All with 3 blade fixed, expandables aren't allowed here. Like Justin, I'm more of a balance guy. I build my arrows to be as heavy as they can and still net me around 280 fps with whatever current bow I have. A 27.5" draw length doesn't yield great speed with a heavy arrow. I suppose I'm a bit old school, I practice judging yardage all year long and will take a shot at an animal if I'm confident in my number but haven't had a chance to zap it with my rangefinders. If I'm not positive I can put the arrow behind the shoulder and not into it, then I just don't take the shot. Yes, I have messed up and hit the shoulder. That hasn't happened in many years now though, I discovered that "forcing" a shot that wasn't ideal was the main cause of a poor hit, whether it was too far of a shot or a poor angle. What the long shot video's never show is the animals they hit and don't recover. So I guess what I'm saying is if you are going to take longer shots but are worried about not hitting an animal where you need to, perhaps you should rethink your hunting ethics. I'm really not trying to be rude, but my experience with losing an animal is that it deflates my desire to hunt and ruins the whole season for me. I'd rather avoid that. I read comments all the time where someone says, "I'd only take a 50 yard shot (or whatever their "long" shot distance is) if it was a really big buck/bull". What? I don't want to risk a poor shot at any animal, let alone a really good buck/bull.
I have also jumped off the deep end and will be shooting arrows typical of what the ranch fairy preaches. However, in my opinion, weight of the arrow is often a byproduct of what I think the two most important elements of an ideal hunting arrow consist of. 1.) A cut on contact broadhead. And 2.) High FOC so that the broadhead pulls the shaft through the animal, rather than the shaft pushing the broadhead. If you can accomplish these two elements within the parameters most people consider normal whitetail hunting weights I don’t think it’s as important. Just my opinion. Sent from my iPhone using Bowhunting.com Forums
Thats the expensive but correct answer I think. You can shoot far, or destroy bone but not both. Gonna pick up some element archery typhoons, 8.8 gpi. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah but I would rather be driving a tank in case I get in a car wreck even if I get crappy gas milage every day.
Personally, I see very little difference in POA out to 40 yards between the 480 grain arrow I shot last year versus 600 grain arrows I am going to try this year. I don’t shoot at white tails past 30. Being close is why I bowhunt. With such a small difference I would rather sacrifice a little speed to hit a deer harder with a heavier arrow.
Everyones set up is different, hunting environment, and game they hunt. Do what is good for you. For me, right about 450 grains works well for the average size VA deer. I don't like shooting out past about 25 yards so I keep it simple with my arrow set ups and equipment. Might not work so well hunting deer 100 lbs bigger in Iowa. Don't know.
You missed the part where I’m shooting out to 100 yards every day that I’m not shooting at animals Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have to ask, how long have you been shooting a bow? Better yet, flinging arrows? You REALLY think 1 arrow is going to do it all for you? No way. Maybe time for some more schoolin’. You’re trying to combine 2 entirely different archery philosophies. Ashby has been around longer than any of the other celebrities you mentioned. His ideas have cost more animals their lives than the other guys combined. The HEAVY FOC game is a fools game IF you don’t take the time to tune with each % change. Most don’t, they just keep adding weight until they can’t hit anything. A 400-500 grain arrow, 9-11% FOC should tune out of any bow, hit any dot and penetrate any animal AT REASONABLE RANGE.
What does practice distance have to do with arrow weight? A 600 grain arrow will it accurately at 100 if the set up correctly done and the shooter does his part. The trajectory juat won’t be as flat as with a lighter arrow.
I think before people start jumping up and down; the OP is making the point that he likes to practice on targets at 100 so that 50-60 on Out West game is more achievable. For western hunting this is a completely reasonable and realistic distance expectation. So he would want to keep his set up the same; whether he's shooting foam at 100 or 50. What good does it do to practice at 100 with a target arrow set up and then switch to completely different components for hunting? Where he diverges from conventional thought is the presumed benefit/need to be using an ultra light arrow set up to achieve that range out of his bow. Having a bow with similar specs, I know for a fact he could easily reach out to 100 (assuming he is personally skilled enough to do so) with a 435-450gr TAW. He doesn't need to be ultralight; and the benefits of using such a set up are quickly surpassed by the negatives. Those negatives rapidly pile up when moving outdoors where crosswinds and even humidity quickly begin to affect an ultralight arrow (not to mention KE and Big Mo.) Using his current bow's specs and set up, a 435-450gr TAW with decent FOC and fixed head is more than capable of taking even elk humanely out to 80 yards; so long as the archer's skills are up to the task. My last .02 on the matter- for what and where he is expected to be shooting, his TAW sweet spot is right in that 425-450gr range.
You hit the nail on the head, any probably explained it better than I did. Now my question is how did you come up with that TAW? Do you have a chart that shows (?) total weight flying at (?) fps will drop (?) inches at so many yards? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
no charts, just personal experience using a 31" shaft with a TAW of 435gr through a 70# 340IBO-rated bow. At the time I was using a 5 pin sight. Originally, I set my top pin to be dead on at 30 yards. It was more or less dead on at 15, a little high at 20, and about 2" low at 35. Second pin was dead on at 40 yards- about 3" high at 30, and about 4" low at 50. I kept zeroing each pin at 50, 60, and so on. I just kept playing around. Eventually I found 'sweet spots' with the pins where I could pick the wrong pin at the right range or the right pin at the wrong range and still be in the killzone. I found that my 80 yard pin aiming 1' above the back of a 3d elk would drop it right in the sweet spot behind the elbow...so that's what, about 3' of drop from 80-100? *** I say that your 'sweet spot' is that grain range; but you could easily shoot heavier at distance if you wanted. Again, using a similarly-specced bow I am shooting 520gr out to 80 easily. The arrow's path through the air looks like a Hail Mary pass, but it does get there and hits much harder than a mid-400gr set up.
I have been involved with archery hunting since 1975 and over the years have shot a lot of different setups. My personal experience is to develop the arrow weight and size to the game you are hunting. I.E., my elk arrow is different than my antelope arrow. My mule deer arrow is somewhere in-between. I have settled on cut on contact broad heads for the last several years. My hunting arrow weight is 368 grains, my hunting bow draw weight is 65 lbs, my draw length is 30 inches. On the opposite end of things, my 3-d bow draw weight is 62 lbs and my arrow weight is 325 grains. My arrow speed is 308 for the hunting arrow and 325 for the 3-d arrow. I have killed elk with 350 grain arrows out of a 70 lb bow using expandable broad heads. I have killed bear with a 400 grain arrow with a fixed broadhead. I have killed mule deer, hogs and antelope with both setups and total arrow weights varying between 350 and 380 grains. In all cases, the arrows have been pass thru's. The main thing I have learned is that what ever arrow combination you choose, you have to tune the arrow to the bow so you get the best flight characteristics. Best way to do that is purchase a computer program so you can play with different arrow combinations and know what to expect, then build the arrow and go shoot it to verify the findings, and tune the arrow as well as the bow. I like T.A.P. and have been using it for many years. It will tell you how much arrow drop you are getting with any combination you choose to look at as well as F.O.C., Speed, and Kinetic energy. I also have 3 different bows that I shoot, one for hunting only, one for 3-d and one for general goof off.
Just ordered a dozen 350 spine element Archery tornados. Will cut them to 28”, 7.4 gpi. With a 100 grain fixed blade and 100 grain brass insert, my FOC is 21%. Archers advantage software says I’m optimally spined. Any trajectory issues with a 420 grain TAW and 21% FOC at 100 yard shots? Should i stick with standard 14 grain inserts for better long range performance? Trying to design a build that kills all species in Colorado out to 50 yards, and can still reach out to 100 yard targets. Ashby says 20+ FOC can help fill the gap when arrow weight isn’t 600+. Currently shooting 600 grain easton axis with 15% FOC and they drop like rocks past 70 yards. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
