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The Kill ...

Discussion in 'Bowhunting Talk' started by Tony, Jul 1, 2014.

  1. LittleChief

    LittleChief Administrator

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    Do I like the kill? No, not really. I LOVE it. I've been pretty outspoken about that fact over the years. Does that make me a psycho? Not at all. Well, at least not in my opinion. Maybe @Swamp Stalker can analyze my post here and tell me if I'm psychopathic. :lol:

    What I mean when I say I love the kill is that I truly enjoy making the shot that puts my quarry down. You know, the shot that ends the life of the animal you're hunting. The kill shot. It's the culmination of all of the off-season day dreaming, the anticipation, planning, preparation, strategy, execution, then the adrenaline, trembles, and shakes while the deer is coming in. It's the finish after trying to control your breathing because you're sure it will hear you, feeling your heartbeat up in your throat. All of that coming together perfectly for the moment of the kill shot. I love that. When I see that arrow streak into the vitals of a deer it's exhilarating. It's an absolute adrenaline rush. THAT is what I mean when I say I love the kill.

    This doesn't mean that I kill things just for the enjoyment of seeing them die. When I'm deer hunting, I'm hunting deer. I don't shoot squirrels, fox, bobcat, coyotes, raccoons, groundhogs, armadillos or any other animal when I'm deer hunting. Those animals aren't what I'm hunting. My quarry is the only animal that need be afraid when I'm on a deer stand.

    I'll admit that I did shoot a coyote once and I felt terrible about it immediately. I actually felt worse for that thing than I have for any deer I've killed. He wasn't my intended target. For some reason as it walked by I suddenly felt a predatory urge and I shot it. Most of you would say to kill every coyote I see, but personally I have nothing against them. They are just doing what they do. They aren't overpopulated where I am or where I hunt.

    Last year I had a huge bobcat walk by me at 12 yards, stop and mark his territory. It never even entered my mind to pick up my bow. I just shot video. When I showed the video to the guys at camp they asked "Why the hell didn't you shoot it?" I said I wasn't bobcat hunting. They all said I was crazy.

    Now, do I feel remorse after I kill a deer? No, I don't. Well, not if I made a quick, clean kill. I did feel sorry for the buck I killed on the 6th of this month. It was a single lung shot from top to bottom. We tracked him for a quarter mile and found him alive. As soon as I could I nocked another arrow and sent it to finish the job. After I did that I pulled out my phone and shot a short video. If I could post that video on here I would, because you would probably feel a little sorry for it too. It was lying there with its tail wagging, head going up and down trying to breathe. It really sucked, but that's a part of hunting. It's just that most times it doesn't happen right in front of us. On a less than perfect shot they run out of sight and we find them after the suffering is over.

    Yes, I love the thrill of the hunt and I love the kill at the end of the hunt, but I'm not a psychopathic killer. A little bloodthirsty when it comes to deer maybe, but I do love it so.
     
  2. LittleChief

    LittleChief Administrator

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    I think most states use the word harvest on their DNR websites now. It's a sign of the times.

    I just refuse to conform.

    I remember going back to work at St. Jude after a hunting trip. Inevitably there would be a few ladies who would ask me if I "caught" any deer. I always had the same answer, and that was, "Yeah, I did. They're really fast, but they're pretty easy to catch after you shoot an arrow through their lungs."
     
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  3. cls74

    cls74 Legendary Woodsman

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    Agree with all of this, I love seeing the wobble as they run off and you know they're aboit to go down. I do hate seeing that last breathe being gasped. I hate bad shots and the suffering that it creates, 2 cases for me was when I spine shot a year and half 6 point and second was a doe that walked the script perfect at 7yds and I was too focused on getting the kill on camera and liver punched her. Those 2 shots really had me questioning myself, one was completely unintentional and the other was completely avoidable. Took my camera off the bow for awhile after that, maybe ever since but can't remember.

    As to the psychotic part, the part we enjoy im execution and watching the prey fall, I've often wondered and have stated on here somewhere, whether that same feeling we have is what drives serial killers. Huge difference in reasoning and justification, but same feeling none the less. That was kind of the sustenance over pleasure thing I mentioned a day or two ago. Not really a thin line between the two, but the difference between mental state and health.
     
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  4. cls74

    cls74 Legendary Woodsman

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    I have friends that ask that, "catch anything?", pretty much shows they do nothing outdoors :lol:
     
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  5. cls74

    cls74 Legendary Woodsman

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  6. bucksnbears

    bucksnbears Grizzled Veteran

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    100% agree LC. I hunt/kill. I don't "harvest".
    but the coyote thing...., you have an opportunity, TAKE IT!:bow:
     
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  7. cls74

    cls74 Legendary Woodsman

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    I agree with the coyote kill on site mantra, but areas here in IL are over populated.

    If they are kept in check via trapping and hunting there is a place for them in the eco system.

    Here, I don't wait for an "ethical shot" as I have no compassion for them. They are overpopulated and that leads to inbreeding and quite possibly creating a deficient animal that does not act in its normal capacity. To me they are like flies, spiders and wasps. Too many of them to care about and no compassion on smashing them.
     
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  8. LittleChief

    LittleChief Administrator

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    Nah, I have no reason to shoot a coyote. I've never lived in a place that had a large coyote population and like I said, I have nothing against them. I realize that they can be a real nuisance predator, but so can any other predator. Until I have a valid reason to kill one I just won't do it, and saying that they kill fawns and turkey poults doesn't justify it for me. They're just doing what coyotes do.
     
  9. LittleChief

    LittleChief Administrator

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    I'm open minded enough to admit that if I lived in an area that was overpopulated with them I'd probably have the same outlook and would do the same. Perhaps not with the same level of animosity you have though. :lol: I think what bothered me more than anything about the coyote I shot is that it reacted just like a dog would, and I like dogs better than I like most people.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2022
  10. Tony

    Tony Legendary Woodsman

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    Johnny, that was an awesome post! I believe it speaks to everyone that hunts, whether that can “get there” or not.

    And harvest aggravates me as I am not politically correct. It’s the same as not taking a proper picture of the animal.. don’t show blood, tuck the tongue, tuck the legs, set it on its belly… blah blah blah… I love the pictures that show the reality of it all… the posed ones are nice as well but “as they lay” photos keep the reality of it all captured for ever as the deed that we just did can’t be undone and was, in fact the end goal we were hoping for.

    I also love to see deer on the back of a trailer, vehicle, etc as when I started out, you HAD to have it so the law could see it. No offense to Ty, but to try and hide what we just did so we don’t offend non hunters is a concept I cannot even wrap my brain around….

    The Kill is absolutely the essential part of hunt and the most thrilling and the WHY we do what we do…



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  11. cls74

    cls74 Legendary Woodsman

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    They were on a doe I killed within less than an hour and possibly within minutes back in 2009. Perfect hit, didn't see her go down but knew she was done. Was like 7am and the other stamd I had hunted they normally moved through around 8am so went for a double. By the time I got there they were already feeding on acorns at the stand and tried to sneak up on them. Got busted coming to draw, climbed up anyway. While on stand I couldn't concentrate or stop thinking I had a deer down and needed to get it dressed. Climbed down and started tracking. About 70yds away there she lays,, hind quarter torn to shreds, ass eaten out and urine on the hide.. rolled her over so the piss ran away from exposed meat then drug about 30yds in front of another stand hoping they were watching me. Got in the stand and sat over their meal for 30 minutes before climbing down.

    Cut the rear quarter off well below the exposed meat, skinned it out and cut the rest of the meat off.

    My uncle thought they may have heard my bow go off and associated the sound with a kill, but who knows. I know they were on her quick.

    Another time I was hunting a ladder stand, below it between the ladder and tree was an old steel folding chair. I climbed down one sit and sat in that chair for a nap. Woke up for some reason and when I turned my head 2 coyotes were literally 7 feet away walking by. Let them pass and tried to draw my bow but they were on weak side and bolted.
     
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  12. LittleChief

    LittleChief Administrator

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    I seriously doubt coyotes heard the sound of the bow and associated it with a kill. A bow sounds kind of loud to the shooter, but it's actually very quiet compared to the sound a deer makes crashing and dying. I'd bet you that's what they heard and were attracted to.
     
  13. cls74

    cls74 Legendary Woodsman

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    Very well could be, but he lived most of his life on that land and just about everything he told me rang true. Didn't have, and still don't have, any reason to deem it not plausible.

    I only hunted it 15 years, hunted 1 year back in 1999/2000 but never trusted myself to take a shot then.

    Either way, they are over populated and I'd even say educated on where to hunt/hang out just based on gut piles every year.
     
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  14. tynimiller

    tynimiller Legendary Woodsman

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    Trust me, perhaps when younger I'd take offense but no longer for sure. I have my beliefs and until I believe they are disrespectful, immoral or even unbiblical I'm content in disagreement - and would argue being content with disagreement allows for the best conversations to occur.

    Like @LittleChief stating if I called my AR an "assault weapon" I would be using the wrong term, I whole heartedly agree....however I disagree in that being a similar thing to calling a deer I take the life of as a harvest rather than a kill being the wrong terminology. Harvest has been used to describe the killing of animals for years, honestly I don't remember a time in my life (I know short to some, longer to others) it wasn't a descriptive term...which no doubt comes from the second two of the main four definitions of harvest:

    Harvest
    1. the process or period of gathering in crops.
    2. the season's yield or crop
    3. a quantity of animals caught or killed for human use.
    4. the product or result of an action.
    Now of course if only referencing the first two defining statements for harvest Johnny is spot on, which is why I 100% get what he is saying...at some point was 3 & 4 created as an accepted definition of harvest similar to how many are trying to get "assault weapon" to be an accepted definition of an AR-15...the key difference for me is that is not wholly or even close to wholly accepted by the general population. Harvest to me is an acceptable way of expressing a kill, as it is the product or result of an action. The key to me is however, I never pretend or sugar coat the aspect that hunting 100% has to include killing, if it didn't, you are not hunting you are merely watching.

    I think it all comes down to the intent behind either the use of the word kill or as you described @Tony taking of photos...

    As I've told Caleb (Siman), him and his crew at times share photos that I'd personally never probably do for various reasons - BUT, I've NEVER even for a second ever got the feeling that they are sharing a photo as a "middle finger" if you will to non-hunters, they are sharing a part of the harvest (or kill) with others. I always encourage folks that want to take photos to do it, and honestly take tons...candids, staged...who cares just take them - you will regret not doing so someday if you don't (I wish I had so many more than the terrible ones I had for my first buck).

    I also, at least personally, believe different level of thought must go into these decisions if someone chooses to be a deliverer of content too...but that is a further layer to the conversation which does not matter for the discussion.

    Kill...harvest...I don't care I just hope we all do a lot of it this fall!! :chewy:
     
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  15. tynimiller

    tynimiller Legendary Woodsman

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    Also for the record @Tony I have been known to haul deer around with the tailgate down or in an open trailer with zero worries :lmao2:
     
  16. Tony

    Tony Legendary Woodsman

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    Do you pose it on the tailgate with the tongue tucked and blood cleaned off?


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  17. Ridgerunner3

    Ridgerunner3 Grizzled Veteran

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    Man, you guys are some modern day philosophers on this topic. Not a drag on it or anything, but it is interesting to see some of the responses. I'll join in. Younger me, just getting into hunting at a late age of 18, had an idea of deer being somewhat majestic and was conflicted when it came to the idea of ending one. Of course I never said anything to the "men" in camp about this and it didn't bother me in the least when others killed one. I thought it was awesome and always was eager to help field dress and butcher. I had no fantasies of it being anything else, but killing. I actually remember a couple of misses with a rifle back then that made me wonder if I had missed intentionally on a subconscious level or if I was just that "rattled" from the adrenaline dump. All I knew at the time was I loved the pursuit and the excitement of having one in my sights. That was a long time ago and that excitement never faded and hopefully never does. I don't think I could cover anything that was already mentioned, but I agree it is a kill.

    By the time I moved on to bow hunting, the hesitation or confliction was replaced by the excitement of being really close to my target and tryin my damnedest to make a quick, clean kill. If anyone was following in LFTS thread of the doe I shot last month, you'll know how pissed I was about that debacle being anything but quick and clean. I hated it.

    I still revere the animal and always say my thank you to it and to God for allowing me to continue doing what I love. And I enjoy it every aspect of what it takes to get it done.

    Now as far as how others perceive us hunters and how we phrase what it actually is to kill an animal, well that is just the world we live in. Let the world figure it out. I'll keep killing deer, processing them to eat and not really worrying so much about all the rest. And if someone wants to say they harvest deer, that's fine, but I still reserve the right to chuckle to myself while remembering that I was once, way back, a little bit soft.
     
  18. tynimiller

    tynimiller Legendary Woodsman

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    Loved this, the only thing I'd push back on is the concept of feeling like you did or calling it a harvest is to be soft.

    To me the key is expressed in your one line of test: I still revere the animal and always say my thank you to it and to God for allowing me to continue doing what I love. And I enjoy it every aspect of what it takes to get it done. Do that and I don't care what you call it, you want to call it murdering, killing, snuffing life, harvesting...or something else I'll always be good with the person.
     
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  19. Tony

    Tony Legendary Woodsman

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    I never understood thanking the animal… he had nothing to do with OUR choice to slice his lungs open…. It’s like thanking someone after you sucker punch them… :lmao:


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  20. bucksnbears

    bucksnbears Grizzled Veteran

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    I love watching a beautiful sunrise/sunset, birds,squirrels ect.
    But I don't sit in a deerstand unless I'm waiting to "kill".
     

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