The Illinois Whitetail Disaster - Don Higgins

Discussion in 'Bowhunting Talk' started by Fitz, Jan 5, 2014.

  1. atlasman

    atlasman Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Just throwing this out there for our brothers in Illinois, or any state for that matter. Your DNR doesn't give a damn about you or the deer you chase. Lots of guys have this romantic image of bow hunters being admired and high on the govts list of who they aim to please.......that is a joke.

    They have a job to do and that job is to keep deer numbers under control. Any wishful thinking that they lose sleep over the size of the antlers on the bucks you see is pure delusion.

    States like Kansas, Iowa, Illinois, etc all enjoy great hunting IN SPITE of people due to the perfect storm of habitat, nutrition, and low hunting pressure. The northeast has every potential to grow bucks as big as they get but there are just too many people killing them for that to ever happen.

    Put 1,000,000 hunters in Kansas and the place would be devastated in 3 years.

    Illinois May not have that many hunters but give them all multiple tags and the same effect eventually occurs.


    What's the answer???...........sadly in my opinion I don't think there is one. DNR's have never and will never be on your side, they know you won't stop buying a license. Save your money and accumulate some land.........manage it yourself and with any luck and decent neighbors you will enjoy hunting the way you want to.


    Anyone hoping their DNR is going to fix their problems is in for years of heartbreak.
     
  2. dukemichaels

    dukemichaels Grizzled Veteran

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  3. dukemichaels

    dukemichaels Grizzled Veteran

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    I don't think anyone would argue against that atlas.

    Im just pointing out the holes in Higgins article. That above formentioned is one of them. He says he's worked with the IDNR for twenty years and its "come to this".

    I don't buy it. I've read some of his other articles. My bet is he either burned that bridge a long time ago or is after something not in the best interest of the states deer biologists (antlers and not herd reduction) I just didn't want to break some people's hearts.

    however, I do believe Higgins has a strong enough audience to help to some degree.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2014
  4. NEW61375

    NEW61375 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    As soon as I build up enough vacation time I'm going to IL to hopefully shoot a spork, a button buck, and a doe(tags permitting). I will then write that in a book(not the "book" of course, just a book) and pat myself on the back til I just can't stand it.

    This deer hunting thing is serious business! smh
     
  5. atlasman

    atlasman Die Hard Bowhunter

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    You win that bet. It's not hard to see what kind of person Don is............in this thread alone he has threatened to sue people, called members childish names and claimed his holding the IDNR accountable is partly responsible for the criminal charges he plead guilty to. That all sandwiched by constant reminders of how everyone is jealous of him.


    What mature adult in a professional atmosphere would ever want to work with someone like that? My guess is by "working with" Don means he tells them what to do and if they don't do it he calls them names and storms out of the room.

    Good luck with that............you have a better chance of your DNR sticking it to you on purpose out of spite. DNR guys are people just like you and I and I'm sure they don't appreciate being talked down to either.
     
  6. atlasman

    atlasman Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Are the outfitters in Illinois suffering as well or just the common dude on public land?
     
  7. buttonbuckmaster

    buttonbuckmaster Grizzled Veteran

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    I don't know of any outfitters in my area, but the deer are scarce. Still hasn't people from hunting the late doe only seasons. Just makes you shake your head in disbelief.
     
  8. jrk_indle84

    jrk_indle84 Grizzled Veteran

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    I can't say with outfitters elsewhere but I know the two biggest ones around here, one in Adams and one in Pike counties, have found a few here and there dead from whatever. They seem to having a pretty normal year, dont think its a great year but I don't think they are suffering to much.

    Agree with this, especially if the people out there are ones doin the griping.

    Not gonna lie though I've been out or will be both times trying to get meat in freezer but I've only taken one deer all season. Passed up too many chances I shouldnt of and didn't hunt as much now trying to make up for it late.
     
  9. buttonbuckmaster

    buttonbuckmaster Grizzled Veteran

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    I'm just talking about locally. I have no idea what you have as far as numbers and I know there are areas that have alot of deer. But when hunters in an area aren't seeing ANY deer anywhere, then drive every patch of timber to fill however many tags they have just to "tag out", it makes you question WTH they are thinking.
     
  10. jrk_indle84

    jrk_indle84 Grizzled Veteran

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    Oh yea I completely agree. I was basically just saying I can't really be to hard on somebody for hunting late season when I'm doin it.

    Kinda like people saying they never see nice bucks but they shoot almost anything that walks by. But on the same side of it I believe you should shoot whatever makes you happy but if you want high caliber bucks you gotta pass a few here and there and let them mature. I just got a real nice 8 point showing up on camera that's pretty much identical on both sides, guess what they call a main frame 8. When I first saw the pics I was kinda disappointed because I was gonna hunt that day right by where he was. But after looking at it more he's not very old and looks to have some good potential for next year and was actually glad I didn't have to make that decision in person. But I know a few around where I hunt that wouldn't of thought twice about pulling trigger and like I said they wonder why they dont see the big deer you see elsewhere
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2014
  11. Denny

    Denny Newb

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    Awareness is the first steps to fixing the rapid decline in the Whitetail deer population. First get rid of the phone or computer harvest check in. many hunters in my area are killing deer with guns during Bow season because there is no visual check on the harvested animal. Second there is a two buck limit per person per year no matter what weapon you use. This is only as accurate as the harvest sex report!!!! Third the state of Illinois is also broke and have let their public lands go by the wayside. selling off state land. Fourth because the State is broke they are asking to much from the farmers who use to lease the farm ground on public land. This is creating a food shortage in some areas for The deer herd as well as turkey and small game. Fifth the economy is bad and people are poaching deer to feed their families. allowing them to spend their money on their outrageous utilities. Sixth The outfitting in our area here in Adams, Brown and pike is out of control. The amount of leased land to outfitters is affecting the balance of hunting. You may say how can this be so. First the outfitter now has control over a large number of acres in specific areas. In most cases they will not allow small game or Coyote hunting. Or running dogs to hunt coyote in fear of disturbing their hunters or deer herd. This is working against them and allowing the coyote population to explode. Ask any hunter in these areas and they will tell you that the rabbit and quail population are way down. This means there are a lot of hungry coyotes. Coyotes kill a lot of just born deer!!!! The appeal of hunting trophy bucks in Illinois has upset the balance of the deer herd. Paying hunters don't want to pay $3,000 to $5,000 dollars to kill does!!! See my point. At first this caused a population explosion and now it has promoted various diseases. Diseases that have wiped out entire areas where I have hunted since I have been a boy. The outfitter in are areas are short lived however because of the mass kill off and survival rate of the Whitetail Deer. This has dramatically decreased the success rate of the outfitter and who wants to pay for a low success rate outfitter. Thus hurting the outfitters budget causing them to lose the leased land and returning it to its natural state of prime habitat. Now The price of land should fall because of this imbalance thus making it more affordable for hunters and farmers alike. However with the increase in the number of hunters in our state the deer herd will take some time to rebound and may never return to its peak number. Illinois must be more involved with its harvest reporting and close the loophole for illegal reporting. If this is not done then the deer herd balance will not recover. The harvest reporting numbers due to poaching due to a terrible economy must be taken into consideration. When Illinois biologist look at the problem we can only hope they understand all the factors and take in consideration as such. If not then we Illinois hunters will be looking to hunt in other states spending money across State lines and hurting Illinois economy further. WHAT A BEAUTIFUL CYCLE GOD HAS CREATED. It becomes a vicious cycle when man takes advantage and miss manages for personal and monetary gain. Sincerely, Denny Snell, Team HotSpot, Clayton IL. If you would like to become part of our team we are accepting resumes. Send to [email protected] Please leave me some pictures and a small paragraph telling me why you love to hunt and desire to video hunt? Don't Forget your contact information. I look forward in hearing from you. Maybe you will be on our next video release. At Team hotspot we do not support outfitting on land not owned by the business. Nor do we hunt or video in anyway on any outfitted land. 100% Wild And Fair Chase And In Most Cases Hunts Take Place On Public Land.
     
  12. early in

    early in Grizzled Veteran

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    Only the one's who try to slander him with what he says are falsehoods. Atlas, you say in post# 202 "Big antlers always make the situation worse..............but picture yourself chasing a big buck for years and then finding out someone shot and snatched it off YOUR LAND under the cover of darkness." Don Higgens says he shot the buck on property he has/had permission to be hunting on, do you have facts that say differently?
     
  13. Denny

    Denny Newb

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    Awareness is the first steps to fixing the rapid decline in the Whitetail deer population. First get rid of the phone or computer harvest check in. many hunters in my area are killing deer with guns during Bow season because there is no visual check on the harvested animal. Second there is a two buck limit per person per year no matter what weapon you use. This is only as accurate as the harvest sex report!!!! Third the state of Illinois is also broke and have let their public lands go by the wayside. selling off state land. Fourth because the State is broke they are asking to much from the farmers who use to lease the farm ground on public land. This is creating a food shortage in some areas for The deer herd as well as turkey and small game. Fifth the economy is bad and people are poaching deer to feed their families. allowing them to spend their money on their outrageous utilities. Sixth The outfitting in our area here in Adams, Brown and pike is out of control. The amount of leased land to outfitters is affecting the balance of hunting. You may say how can this be so. First the outfitter now has control over a large number of acres in specific areas. In most cases they will not allow small game or Coyote hunting. Or running dogs to hunt coyote in fear of disturbing their hunters or deer herd. This is working against them and allowing the coyote population to explode. Ask any hunter in these areas and they will tell you that the rabbit and quail population are way down. This means there are a lot of hungry coyotes. Coyotes kill a lot of just born deer!!!! The appeal of hunting trophy bucks in Illinois has upset the balance of the deer herd. Paying hunters don't want to pay $3,000 to $5,000 dollars to kill does!!! See my point. At first this caused a population explosion and now it has promoted various diseases. Diseases that have wiped out entire areas where I have hunted since I have been a boy. The outfitter in are areas are short lived however because of the mass kill off and survival rate of the Whitetail Deer. This has dramatically decreased the success rate of the outfitter and who wants to pay for a low success rate outfitter. Thus hurting the outfitters budget causing them to lose the leased land and returning it to its natural state of prime habitat. Now The price of land should fall because of this imbalance thus making it more affordable for hunters and farmers alike. However with the increase in the number of hunters in our state the deer herd will take some time to rebound and may never return to its peak number. Illinois must be more involved with its harvest reporting and close the loophole for illegal reporting. If this is not done then the deer herd balance will not recover. The harvest reporting numbers due to poaching due to a terrible economy must be taken into consideration. When Illinois biologist look at the problem we can only hope they understand all the factors and take in consideration as such. If not then we Illinois hunters will be looking to hunt in other states spending money across State lines and hurting Illinois economy further. WHAT A BEAUTIFUL CYCLE GOD HAS CREATED. It becomes a vicious cycle when man takes advantage and miss manages for personal and monetary gain. Sincerely, Denny Snell, Team HotSpot, Clayton IL. If you would like to become part of our team we are accepting resumes. Send to [email protected] Please leave me some pictures and a small paragraph telling me why you love to hunt and desire to video hunt? Don't Forget your contact information. I look forward in hearing from you. Maybe you will be on our next video release. At Team hotspot we do not support outfitting on land not owned by the business. Nor do we hunt or video in anyway on any outfitted land. 100% Wild And Fair Chase And In Most Cases Hunts Take Place On Public Land.
     
  14. buttonbuckmaster

    buttonbuckmaster Grizzled Veteran

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    I've noticed alot of people say that bringing back check stations will help the herd. If a hunter shoots a deer and doesn't take the effort to make a 2 minute call or log onto the DNR website, why on earth would the same guy make the effort to drive to a check station? Don't get me wrong, I actually enjoyed when we had to check in deer, I saw some giant bucks and got to talk to alot of hunters. But finding a check station open on a Sunday evening was often a difficult task, and a 30 minute drive for me. I like the tele check system. Untagged/reported deer will always be a factor, check stations or not.
     
  15. virginiashadow

    virginiashadow Legendary Woodsman

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    Time for all hunters to self regulate. Also, dads need to teach their kids about conservation as much or more than how to hunt. Just my opinion.
     
  16. bz_711

    bz_711 Die Hard Bowhunter

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  17. jrk_indle84

    jrk_indle84 Grizzled Veteran

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  18. atlasman

    atlasman Die Hard Bowhunter

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    He has neither been slandered nor had to read "falsehoods". Everything said in this thread is true and if not he was offered the chance to point out the "falsehoods" so they could be removed, an offer he declined for obvious reasons.

    My statement makes no reference to where the deer was shot, merely that it was and SNATCHED off YOUR land. Not to mention it is a hypothetical question I posed to YOU and never mentioned Don. He didn't take it off YOUR land either but apparently you missed that part LOL.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2014
  19. atlasman

    atlasman Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I agree but............good luck with that.
     
  20. atlasman

    atlasman Die Hard Bowhunter

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    How come no one gave a damn when guys from states like Pa,MI,NY, voiced similar complaints for the last 15 years???


    I distinctively remember those concerns being met with comments like "don't like it??.......MOVE!!!"........or "that's what you get for shooting the first deer you see...........it's YOUR fault"

    Now that the shoe is on the other foot all kinds of finger pointing and whining from the same crowd..........interesting.
     

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