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The Illinois Whitetail Disaster - Don Higgins

Discussion in 'Bowhunting Talk' started by Fitz, Jan 5, 2014.

  1. dukemichaels

    dukemichaels Grizzled Veteran

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    no. Billboards don't work. They said just as much as this article really.

    I agree, it will take a village.

    thats where I think Higgins could come in. Maybe leading that village. His pen reaches enough viewers to do so. That's the role I'd personally like to see him take.
     
  2. PSEREVENGEMAN

    PSEREVENGEMAN Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I agree but 2% of the population hunt deer. politically insignificant. What's the membership of the top Il. deer hunting org.? Is there a Idha? How many of your buddies took a baldie for whatever reason? Low Dpsm= stop dumping baldies. Until private landowners trump the Il. regs nothing will change. Do you think a biologist is managing for max Dpsm let alone herd age structure? They are managing for social Dpsm. I am in the highest Dpsm unit on the planet. All of us manage to our goals not the Dnr limits. It will take a grassroots effort of restraint and inside 3 years the herd will be fine.

    Wisconsin has become 2 distinct deer hunting experiences. North of hwy 29, public land, no constraint for the local deer herd, really low Dpsm. South of hwy 29, managed by private owners for their goals, predators are dead. #1 book entries for a decade. Private landowners can make the difference. The Idnr can issue tags but hunters squeeze the trigger.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2014
  3. early in

    early in Grizzled Veteran

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    From what I have read here so far, it certainly seems like Mr Higgins has done much more for the cause than many on here who criticize him.
     
  4. dukemichaels

    dukemichaels Grizzled Veteran

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    but he's in the public mind and he can suede much more than any one of us can. So (not trying to sound cliche), with great power comes great responsibility.

    whether or not he has done more than another in terms of cause is insignificant to this topic. The question is not of what he's done, it's his message (in this article) and the way he uses it. A guy can build 1000 bridges, but when one fails he should still expect to see the consequences.

    Being criticized when you are a writer is part of the game. If you can't take the heat then you need to take up a different profession.

    higgins understands this I am sure.
     
  5. PSEREVENGEMAN

    PSEREVENGEMAN Die Hard Bowhunter

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    So your skin in the game is somebody in your area paid for a billboard but Don should take all incoming? Have You heard the breakfast platter story? The egg is involved but the ham is committed. You, like me are involved. Basement blogging/mod is easy vs. hanging it out over 20 years with Nobody having his back. Do You think 1 article in any rag will turn the ship of Il. deer management?
     
  6. dukemichaels

    dukemichaels Grizzled Veteran

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    dont question my buddies, as they all have brain enough not to take does where there are few deer. In fact, on one farm I hunt, I haven't taken a doe since 2008. I know a thing or two about what I'm doing.

    And hey, I understand what the biologist aims are (social dpsm).. It's Higgins you need to be questioning. He's fighting for the latter.

    how do I know this?

    I've been reading Higgins for nearly a decade. The last Illinois deer herd article i read of his was a flop too in my opinion. He basically called out the states deer hunters who shoot lesser bucks than him (he shoots like a 170 every year). I can't remember who he blamed in that one, the IDNR or the average weekend deer hunter. I forget.

    the point is, his style of writing needs to change if he wishes to accomplish anything with his pen. I (a reader of his entitled to my own opinion) often see Higgins as a complainer and nothing more.
     
  7. dukemichaels

    dukemichaels Grizzled Veteran

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    I think you're reading to deeply into my posts my friend. The billboard remark was used as an analogy if you will of what it accomplished - nothing. The same as this article.

    i don't blog or moderate, so what are you trying to accomplish there?

    and yes, a writer who commits himself to a story should take all incoming because that's part of the job. He chose to tackle the subject. So you like and agree with every article you've ever read? I find that hard to believe.

    And clearly you don't read Higgins works. He's not out there fighting the IDNR with nobody else. He's got friends.

    Of the question as to whether I believe one article can turn the ship of Illinois around. Of course not, but it can set the course in the right direction.
     
  8. PSEREVENGEMAN

    PSEREVENGEMAN Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Sorry Duke, Your moniker says You are a Mod like Dan the man.After 5 readings I am still lost with your comp. Higgins is "fighting for the latter", of what? Him shooting "like" a 170 each year just means He is in tune with herd structure. Il. without a grassroots private effort that trumps the Dnr will continue to be a dumpster fire. You sound "like" the surfer dudes I see every morning, "like" You know bro, "like", "like", pass the blunt Bra! 20 days into winter bra? Dude. too funny.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2014
  9. jrk_indle84

    jrk_indle84 Grizzled Veteran

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    Working 20 years on something and then feeling the way your doing it isn't working so you crucify the people who's minds your trying to change or work with doesn't do anything but destroy any progress you've made.

    Like has been stated by many people if you have influence on or are able to reach a mass audience there's better ways to try and get things done. Especially with the state officials we have.

    Instead of blasting the DNR and demanding them to fix the problem do like PSE said and go out and set up organizations in certain areas and get people to practice better management practices. Despite what people have said on here it can be done without having the DNR change things and force it on people. Deer hunting is big money for a lot of people where I live and I've been to a round table discussion for the past two years at a local gun range where those things have been discussed and implemented by many people. There's several people around that hold themselves to certain standards and limitations on what deer they harvest. I'm not saying we weren't effected this year but for the most part people are seeing just as many deer. I was coming home Tuesday from checking cams and counted at least 20 deer in one field and 10-15 in another so they're still out there.

    Peole need to start taking responsibility for what's happened and stop pushing the blame and wait to be forced to change their ways. Everybody wants to keep bringing up tag sales being to high, you can go to the DNR website and look at yearly reports at the end of the season. Go back to 2005 when we had a record harvest and move forward to last year, tag sales increased by about 64000 sold. In seven years time is that a huge increase? Idk but you also look at harvest number and they've been declining too but nothings been said until this year. Yea we had a drastic drop but from a article frenchbritt put on here it stated that even with firearm being down whatever it is, archery and ml are within I think 3% from last year.

    http://www.prairiestateoutdoors.com/pso/article/deer_q_a_with_dnrs_tom_micetich

    But I guess they are talking to a DNR official so he's probably lying.
     
  10. dukemichaels

    dukemichaels Grizzled Veteran

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    snappy response.

    and totally worthless in this thread.

    Come back when you want to talk deer herd again. I take no offense to the totally irrelevant remarks made about me from some guy living wherever.

    when you're ready to be an adult, I'll listen.

    I once wrote for a public audience. I take no offense to the above.
     
  11. dukemichaels

    dukemichaels Grizzled Veteran

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    thank you. That was all I was trying to say.

    but people love to defend our hunting "celebrities".. Even when they kind of botch it.
     
  12. jrk_indle84

    jrk_indle84 Grizzled Veteran

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    Yea I'm not sure people understand it does take a lot of hard work to get into a position where people will listen and follow but no time to tear it all down and be nobody anyone listens to.
     
  13. dukemichaels

    dukemichaels Grizzled Veteran

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    Exactly. This is exactly the position I believe he put himself into.

    Dang, the way people are defending him you'd thought I kicked his dog.

    its not like I'm not a fan of his. I've admitted to reading his works for years. In fact, he used to have a quote of mine on his website for years after I bought his book many years ago.

    but a guy can drop the ball. We all do it once in a while.

    And after a twenty year relationship with someone, this is bad blood if it wasn't already.
     
  14. PSEREVENGEMAN

    PSEREVENGEMAN Die Hard Bowhunter

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    best of luck Il. Getting the Dnr to lower antlerless tags is futile. Once again it will take self discipline and a private movement. Bashing your only public voice is so Il. Ready, fire, aim! The state just north of you has been #1 for a decade. Step back, take a deep breath and learn some lessons. Duke, post a Dpsm map by Dmu or county please. Peace, out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2014
  15. jrk_indle84

    jrk_indle84 Grizzled Veteran

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    Yea I'm not sure how anybody can read this particular article and say to themselves "this will get it done."

    To be perfectly honest I'm not disagreeing with any of the work that's been done or effotrs made. And I openly admitted to not be very familiar with any other writings or books. But if a point or goal is trying to be made like some of the comments he made on here, I can see why there's not any progress.

    One quote was made early on in this thread from him that he's been the "nice" guy and tried talking with the DNR over the years and it hasn't worked so now this article is the way it needs to be done. If you have a personal attack mindset to get progress you might as well stop becaude you've already lost and to me show desperation.
     
  16. dukemichaels

    dukemichaels Grizzled Veteran

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    who's bashing him?

    we're asking him to take a different approach.

    And for the record, wisconsin is not the best state with no problems either.

    you seem pretty good at math so.. Your 18% of the population (your figures) takes just a handful more of record deer
    Every year than our lowly 2.9% of the population does. And you have a much larger population of deer. So.. I'm just not sure why you're bragging. Being number one on that list has a lot of holes in it. There's so much more involved. But your good at math so you probably already knew that.
     
  17. PSEREVENGEMAN

    PSEREVENGEMAN Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Imo, Don was killing mega book bucks when most on here were still breastfeeding and sees where this state has gone over 20 years. Il. WAS the bomb in 1990 and has been a bottle rocket since. Il. has all the ingredients to be #1 and can not get out of its own way. If your goal is to kill a doe and a spork every 2 years congrats, don't buy a Wi. or Ia. license ever. I see a ton of envy here. So Don figured out how to take mega bucks back in the day? He wants the ol' days back, you guys just don't get it. Again, politically You have ZERO chance. It will take private, strong, grassroots orgs. like the Wbbc, WBH, qdm to make a significant change. Go ahead, eat your own.
     
  18. dukemichaels

    dukemichaels Grizzled Veteran

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    Riiiiiggggghhht.

    first, I thought you had "peaced out" this thread already. But I get it, it's so hard to leave when you can't make a point. Clearly, you're having trouble now.

    so we went from questioning Higgins to now being jealous of him. I don't follow.

    trust me, I envy no other hunter. I have no need to.

    im not sure where you keep drawing your conclusions from. It's kind of obnoxious now.

    Can we stay on the subject. Which I remind you is not me or you, but the article itself.

    thats why this thread was started.
     
  19. PSEREVENGEMAN

    PSEREVENGEMAN Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I can't make a point? Back to reading comp. I guess Jealous? No, I have 9 in the book. The article at least raised a minor stir on
    a silent Il. hunter group. This reminds me of Mn. 20 years ago before wolves and an insane Dpsm Dnr goal. Mn. was #1 20 years ago and they are now irrelevant. Are You a Mod or not? The garbage truck ran over the deer hunters of Il. 5 years ago but let's throw bombs at the only guy with stones? That's mensa material.
     
  20. jrk_indle84

    jrk_indle84 Grizzled Veteran

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    Edit: nevermind, but yea envy thats it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2014

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