Who decides which areas are gray? If God knows my heart, and he knows its good, would that affect his opinion of me because I don't believe in him? Can treating everyone how I would want to be treated, be a loving father and husband, helping those in need, etc, all be overwritten by the fact that I don't activitely believe in him? Does it make me lesser of a person in his eyes?
Vito, the following response is my own personal beliefs, so take it with a grain of salt, I'm just as messed up as the next guy! (most-likely even more so!) Much of this may seem contradictory I know (but so it seems is the Bible :D ) I believe the Bible fully in what Tony said about the Bible being written by God with human pens. It's God's word, but it is, has been, and will be open to human interpretation. I've only recently started to study the bible (I mean really try and dive into parts of it and unpack it's meaning). What I've been finding, is many of the areas where I've seemed to disagree with the bible have been ironing themselves out. Some, by coming to a new understanding of what a particular text means (or often meant in its context in time). But honestly, just as many times I've come to agreement by changing my views entirely. So yes, I find myself arguing with the Bible, but it hasn't been a point of contention with God, in fact, he has taught me much through my 'issues' with the Bible. Now, the second part. This was in fact on of the very points that I have had to come to grips with. Your question on the Molester & God? Yes, he can go to Heaven. This change in view came to me though one of my closest friends. He's been my best friend since the day I met him when I changed school in the first grade. He told me this story the night of his bachelor party here at the resort. Everyone else had gone to bed (or honestly passed out), but he and I stayed up at the fire until nearly 5am, talking live which eventually led to God. There was a murder. A girl he knew and loved. Both his dad and her's were Lutheran pastors, and their families have grown up together. Seems that some low life punk kid, put an ad on Craigslist for a babbysitter. My buddies friend was in college and would babysit on the side for extra cash. She answered this ad, and got the job. When she showed up to the house, the "kid" (19yo @ the time I believe) was waiting for here, killed her, did unconscionable things to her, and stuffed her into a trunk. He was eventually caught and tried. My friend, part in support of the family, part for his own sense of justice, attended the trial. He told me that he was really struggling with how God, the one of Love and Peace that he had believed in all his life, could let this senseless tragedy happen to someone so innocent as his friend. One particular day of the trial there was a very long, detailed account of what this punk exactly did to his friend this day. My friend's struggle came to an unbearable point when Jesus laid something on his heart. "My blood is enough!" The same Jesus that died for my friends sins so that he could be saved, the same Jesus that died so that my sins could be forgiven, that same Jesus died so that that low life, punkass, worthless pile of crap... could be saved. Now, this insight from God did not change the fact that his friend was gone, or the pain that friends & family went and are still going through. My friend did not forgive the murderer and hug him. None of this happened. But it did teach my friend and in turn me and valuable lesson about Jesus. When he said that he came to die for the sins of all mankind. He meant it. Not just all the people I or anyone else thinks should get his free pass. Everyone. Every last person. See this was one of those beefs I had with the Bible that ended with me changing my heart as a result of this 'encounter' between Jesus and my friend. His blood is enough. Whether we like it or not, It is enough.
FTR.... the Catholic church is what I came out of ....until I read the Bible... and I dont disagree that horrendous attrocities have come out of the Vatican system ... they believe the pope and clergy are greater, or closer to God than the lay folk...but Jesus payment for our sin opened the Holy of Holies to ALL that will come.... the ground is level at the Cross..... finally, if you were the devil, your biggest weapon would be to claim Christ and act like the devil (hipocrite)...thats what he does more often than coming at you with a red suit and pitchfork..the devil attempts to discredit christ... and as you have seen on some of these threads, he is doing a good job at it...
Thanks for the response, Fitz. Are my questions considered an attempt to discredit? Could I be the devil, or someone controlled by the devil?
Fact is this is how it goes in the catholic church. did i skip the step about being re-born or something.You choose to turn your head and not acknowledge this has happened because it turns people away from your bible and your way of life... dont blame me blame them. if this is not happening please tell us what is? You are taking things from TWO totally different bibles (new?old) testament and quoting from both like they are one in the same and they are not. You were not attacked in my post SO dont attack me ... What i write is my own experience and opinion , So dont think you need to talk down to me. Your post are starting to act like your better then us if we dont share your opinion. It's all about mans free will, we choose to sin, from the highest positions power down to the every day average joe Stones CAST AWAY i can take it.
It has just occurred to me, re-reading through my last response. I've learned much more from my contentions with the Bible, than I have from all the areas that have made sense. I'm guessing that it is because these contentions have made me look inward and upward for answers. They forced me into a conversation with Jesus. Conversation, furthering relationship. Maybe that's why the Bible is tough to follow, he knew it may force us to converse with Him. Just a rambling thought :D
I apologise for my comment... I guess i felt a little to comfortable with the casual language here.... as far as the rest of your post, see my feelings on the Catholic church and hipocrites on my previous post ... just please, dont blame God because of them .... like I said before....wolves in sheeps clothing are the devils biggest tool used to discredit true Christianity.....again, please forgive me
The catholic church came after Jesus death so??? Maybe your right. I just got a chuckle. mel brooks singing "The Inquisition the Inquisition"
Thank you tony I apologize to you to also. And to anyone else i might of offended with my Roderic. I have some pent up anger over this issue and seams to peak around this time of year. Sorry to all.
For it. Fry 'em. When they get to the point of not giving a damn about someone elses life... we don't need them. I prefer to put them down rather than house them for the rest of their natural life at our expense. The space could be better used at a lot less cost.
You have me reeling backwards Bruce! Your posts definitely make me think and for that I appreciate them very much. Let me arm my defense even though I think you may have sunk my battleship.
I'm for it. But there needs to be a defined way that someone is guilty without any type of doubt whatsoever for the death penalty to be considered. My ex's Aunt (met her several times at family functions, etc) was married to the man who was the 100th person released from death row due to DNA evidence proving he wasn't the culprit. He was release sometime in roughly 2003-2004 after serving nearly 20 years. Kinda makes you wonder how many were executed that weren't guilty before DNA testing, or how many truly innocent people are incarcerated despite being innocent? I'm for the death penalty, but again.....there needs to be specific requirements for it to be considered IMHO.
I'm all for that! I also say that those that are against the death penalty should be the only ones that pay taxes to keep these killers alive in prison. Why should my tax dollars go towards it when I don't support it?
"Walk soft and carry a big stick".....only works, if you're willing to wield the big stick. The current death penalty situation in the US is NOT a deterrent to capital crime.
