Teen Hunter Tags Escaped Monster Buck

Discussion in 'Bowhunting Talk' started by henson59, Dec 17, 2014.

  1. trial153

    trial153 Grizzled Veteran

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    Where do you come up with this stuff?

    Do you really think deer farms spend millions of dollars on breeding stock because it has no value? Over stated? You can't be serious.
    They spent years selectively breeding for a single phenotype. In their game genetics are probably the single most important factor.



    To address the rest of the tread. These animals have no business in the wild. The selection process is so narrow in scope that you would not want introduce their genes into a wild deer population.

    I am pretty much a live and let live kind of guy, especially when it comes to people's livelihoods....that said I think the treat deer farms pose to wild populations is substantial....I am not sure livelihoods and "sport hunts" supersede our resources.
     
  2. maxpetros

    maxpetros Grizzled Veteran

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    Like others have mentioned it was his property. If you had a prize winning bull that someone killed wouldn't you be pissed. Obviously it's different because this deer was in season but it's still his property and he has the right for it not to be killed. I'm obviously not a lawyer but this is what I'm assuming.


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  3. trial153

    trial153 Grizzled Veteran

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    There are zero grounds for a suit here. Proving willful intent wouldn't be enough as he was acting in good faith and in accordance with the law. Legal costs would eat up damages, which I don't think would be awarded anyway.
    The farm most likely is insured for loss, they will file a claim and take it on the chin...end of story
     
  4. maxpetros

    maxpetros Grizzled Veteran

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    Most likely what is going to happen.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. CoveyMaster

    CoveyMaster Grizzled Veteran

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    lol...if you say so.
     
  6. CoveyMaster

    CoveyMaster Grizzled Veteran

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    I live in the real world.
    Yep, in large part yes they do. I didn't say it had no value.
    They use AI from proven genetics as a means to a quick result that's reliable. I didn't say genetics had no value...I said it was largely overstated because most wild deer herds have good potential given the same nutrition and protected environment.
     
  7. frenchbritt123

    frenchbritt123 Grizzled Veteran

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    I think there are plenty enough grounds for a suit. If cwd has any uptick in the next 60 months I would see if the farmers umbrella policy can withstand the price per acreage drop in value of the contiguous recreational properties.
     
  8. trial153

    trial153 Grizzled Veteran

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    And how would you prove a correlation between that specific incident and a CWD outbreak? considering any defense attorney worth a nickel can sight 50 incidents of CWD that occurred that had no direct contact with a farm raised deer. Further more could you please show me how your going to link potential recreational property sales to this...who is going file that suit? A bunch of land owners who " would have sold if that deer didn't get out" .....not happening.

    At worst the farm is going to face some increased ball busting from their regulatory government agencies that grants them permits ect....
     
  9. frenchbritt123

    frenchbritt123 Grizzled Veteran

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    Lots have been written on deer farms and cwd hot spots, I didn't say they would win, but the potential for a lawsuit can be seen.
     
  10. fletch920

    fletch920 Grizzled Veteran

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    Don't take my word. Ask anyone with the most basic and remedial understanding of whitetail genetics and potential.

    Sorry, but you will find that the laugh is on you.
     
  11. CoveyMaster

    CoveyMaster Grizzled Veteran

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    I won't and I have, you just want to argue with the answer.
    What exactly are you arguing, do you even know or are you just arguing because it's me.

    I stated that most wild deer populations have the genetics to produce giant racked deer (given the same circumstances a pen raised deer experiences). Is that seriously what you are arguing against? Have you ignored all the posts this year from states all across the country that showcase wild deer over 200"? If you are arguing against that, then it's your understanding of deer genetics that's laughable. Any serious and experienced deer biologist will tell you that the major limiting factors on deer are stress, nutrition and age....not genetics. The thought that wild deer simply possess poor genetics that prevents them from growing monster racks is as outdated as the saying once a spike always a spike. We simply know better now, the problem is that many in the public that don't know any better see these farms and take a quick over view of their AI programs and simply see it as a blame all and a quick explanation as to how monster deer are grown. Genetics are a part of it (as they are in wild deer too) but when you look at the overall process you'll find that as I said...the genetics portion of it is largely overstated. The same genetic traits that are achieved now quickly through AI and semen can be distilled from most wild populations, it's simply faster and easier to go from point A to Z by buying it and applying the needed elements.

    To use your phrase, don't take my word for it...look at any big farms with good management programs that don't AI or import deer and they produce monsters based on nutrition, age structure and controlled pressure (or lack of) among other less important elements like population, etc...
     
  12. CrabDaddy

    CrabDaddy Newb

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    It's going to come down to how state ag and wildlife laws are written. I think the cow analogy is not directly applicable because it's not a game animal, and, obviously, has no season. Does a penned game animal become 'wild' after it escapes? Is a game animal considered 'livestock', when it's put in a pen?
    Sounds like it was known some time in advance that the deer had escaped, I wonder how much talk there had been - did wildlife agency release any statement about the legality of killing an escaped deer? Interesting situation, and I hope the kid is in the clear.
     
  13. Sota

    Sota Legendary Woodsman

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    Yeah insurance companies NEVER sue to recover losses, not like they have their own legal staff and asset recovery experts or anything like that.:o
     
  14. trial153

    trial153 Grizzled Veteran

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    Sure and 20k suit for a deer is worth all that...that wouldn't cover my retainers fees.
     
  15. Jimmie

    Jimmie Weekend Warrior

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    Glad his shot was true. As for the farm, oh well!
     
  16. Sota

    Sota Legendary Woodsman

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    Boiler plate claim lawsuit would not cost anywhere near 20k, the point is the insurance company can put a squeeze on an individual.
     
  17. trial153

    trial153 Grizzled Veteran

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    They sure can if there is an incentive .... a 20 k suit against a third party wouldn't qualify. The neg press that would come from suing a minor over something like this would suck...

    Done arguing.
     
  18. Sota

    Sota Legendary Woodsman

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    I don't think we are arguing, what do you think the antlers or the mount would sell for? Could be an asset worth recovering?
     
  19. trial153

    trial153 Grizzled Veteran

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    Probably not there's a ton of farm raised big bucks that are mounted they could be had for fairly reasonable amounts.
     
  20. Sota

    Sota Legendary Woodsman

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    I have seen some high $ mounts on craigs list:lol:
     

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