He won 11 games with Matt Cassel. Find me another coach that could do that. Kyle Orton is better than Matt Cassel. I've seen them both play for the Chiefs.
What is lost in all this talk is the Patriots defense giving up zero points in the last 4 possessions and the fourth quarter. As well as actually making that play on the ball for the interception. The Brady/Montana argument will go on for the end of time with no clear answer. It's personal preference and how and individual views it. Number of rings, yards, INT's, clutch, 4th quarter comebacks, QBR, etc... on and on and on and on. It's a combination of a lot of things and there is no real answer.
in all this GOAT talk, I always think the "greatest career" and "greatest player" always get mixed up or intermingled
I'm not sure how that could be since most people in this thread keep saying the Patriots only have average talent on their teams? : -) People don't seem to mention Gronk much either?
Coming from a Chiefs fan, when the Tight End is the best player on your team, your not going very far(see Tony Gonzales years). I think the Patriots clearly have some talent and Brady is clearly a top notch QB. I just think the straw that stirs the drink is obviously BB. I just don't think that team, coached by any other coach in the league would be holding the Lombardi trophy today.
Gronk and Graham with NO are as much wide receivers as they are tight ends. Gronk lines up at wr often and is one of the most difficult guys to cover in the league at any position. He also opens up the field for the other guys due to all the attention he gets. He's a game changer.
Lol you won't hear that argument from me... He has certainly had some pretty "mediocre" squads at best... but this year isn't one of them... and the 07-08 years weren't either... they were loaded the year Tyree had the helmet catch and Welker had the butter fingers to ruin their perfect season. It's just remarkable how consistent the axis of Brady and BB remain across roster overhauls and a decade and a half now. 10 win seasons have been the norm, regardless who plays with them. Good or Bad players... 6 trips to the big show speaks for itself, regardless of winning 4 of them.
. All those same things were said about Tony G. during his time in KC. Most of the time there were no quality receivers paired w. Tony G, and he put up huge numbers. Still not good enough to win the Chiefs one single playoff game.
Start the list of the QBs with at least 10 starts in the Playoffs with better records than Manning and at least 1 title. Brady, Montana, Bradshaw, Elway, Farve, Staubach Roethlisberger, Flacco, Starr, Warner, Plunkett, Manning (eli), Young, Stabler. Simms, Rodgers, Griese, Brees.
I understand that Tony G was really good but Gronk is at another level and without him the Pats are a different team. Gronk has scored 54 tds in 59 games played in the NFL. He is one of if not the best red zone threat in the NFL receiver or TE.
