http://www.huntersfriend.com/bow-review-400-fps-bow/400-fps-compound-bow.htm VERY interesting but somewhat lengthy read. Been around for awhile and you may have already seen it. What are your thoughts on this? Basically what they found out, is to reach 400 fps with a 30" 70# draw and 350 grn arrow, you would need a SUPER agressive cam, no more than 5.5" BH, and a 100% efficient cam which most believe to be impossible. A cam will NEVER be 100% efficient in tranferring energy. This got me thinking, with 360 fps being reached this year, we are danged near the peak of where this speed train can physically go. One Positive they brought up, is that while the actual speed numbers will stop inflating VERY soon, what we CAN expect is for the smoother drawing, higher brace height "hunting bows" to reach speeds of what the screamers of today are shooting. As engineers better the efficiency ratings for cams, we can expect a butter smooth, 7"+ BH bow to reach 340-350. Sorry for all you speed demons out there, but the sky is unfortunately NOT the limit. If you are expecting to vastly improve over todays numbers, don't hold your breath or hit the gym pumping iron to up your draw weight. What all do you guys think about this?
Once you get your brain away from that "350 grain arrow" b.s. - then you'll be cooking with fire. I hit 369 on a 29" draw. There are guys routinely shooting High Country bows in the 400's.
I know it's for IBO specs. That's why I said it was b.s. Believe it or not, reality does extend beyond the bounds of the IBO rules and regulations. You've just got to have the balls and the brains to get there.
I have friend who is a High Country dealer and he has been shooting over 400fps for about two years now. While he is getting his speeds when a non-hunting setup, his hunting setup is getting right around the 390 mark. Mind you, his hunting setup is with High Country's Speed Pro Max arrows (which are lighter than IBO specs and voids almost all other bows warranty) and High Country's 55 grain BH's. When I was shooting a HC, I had my setup shooting around 370fps, you can kiss KE goodbye. My Hoyt is shooting right at 300fps and I would take that any day over the extreme speeds I was getting with my HC. My HC was so loud, had so much vibration, and believe or not, it is hard to control that kind of speed. A super fast miss is still a miss!
I'm hunting in the 350's, #70/29/290 (well below IBO specs) generating well OVER 70 pounds KE. My bow is whisper quiet, smooth as silk, and has speed like there's no tomorrow. It is what it is. If you're smart enough to set the bow up right, and a good enough shot to operate it, it'll shoot like a demon. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.
HCA isn't the gods graces for speed guys....they only get there by arrow weight. Take an 82nd Airborne or PSE Xforce and you could get the exact same numbers. It doesn't take much "balls and brains" to figure out the lighter rock you throw, the faster you can throw it. Even the cavemen figured that one out. SO, on the topic....what are your thoughts on an IBO SETUP ever making 400fps? IBO is the industry standard....like it or not Quick. It can be compared to by any bow, even your sub IBO setup. If you are so dead set against it, think of it as 450 fps with your toothpick arra's....think itll happen out of a very shootable bow?
I couldn't agree more Tembry. I'm betting I could exceed that number pictured above with my 82nd at 28.5" but I really don't see the point. At all. And in all honesty, 400 isn't out of reach in the near future. I'm not sure at what price however other than the twang of underweight arrows. The trend I'd rather see is bows boasting KE/Momentum. You know like throwing out a 325 fps 500 grain arrow with nothing more than a whisper from the bow. Now that's a bow! But even then, what do we really need. How deep into the ground do we want our arrows after they pass through a deer? Will we not be satisfied until our arrows explode upon impact? I'm liking the ability of my 82nd to pump out 280fps with a 465 grain arrow at all but 84#KE at a mere 63#'s of draw weight. If I wanted speed, I'd spit out the tooth picks someone else chose.
LMAO - One key difference is that an 82nd Airborne would be in 2,345 pieces if you tried to shoot a 220 grain arrow out of it. Sorry homie, but if you're trying to shoot 3gpp off of a non-laminated composite limb, you need your head checked. . . . as for it being not "shootable". . . hell, I'd bet the brace height on my bow is LONGER than yours. LOL TEmbry - I'm not trying to be rude, but seriously dude. If you've never actually played the speed game with the proper equipment, you have no basis to sit here and tell me why I'm wrong. You might as well be talking about the Tooth Fairy or Little Red Riding Hood. Seriously, y'all can try to discredit what I'm saying as much as you like, but my record speaks for itself: 4 trophy bucks in 2 seasons, and I've never even been CLOSE to hunting above the IBO specs. That's not for target shooting. That's from the treestand, when all the chips are on the table. I have that kind of confidence. I've put my money where my mouth is. And produced. With alarming consistency. In all honesty, I'm so tired of having this argument. It's always the same old b.s. from the talking heads. Round and round again. No new insight. Just opinions, never any experience to back it up. No matter how many times I drag in another dead buck. No matter how many slices of humble pie I serve up to the competition, there will always be another wanna-be bow salesman standing at the front of the line, telling me why I'm wrong or why my method won't work. Rob - you're a bowtech salesman. Of COURSE you don't condone dipping below 5 gpp. That's taking a meal off your plate. I don't fault you one bit. I just have a decided difference of opinion. If I were in your shoes, I'd be in favor of high KE setups too. There is nothing wrong with towing the company line. Just saying - there's more than one way to skin a cat. I just take the road less traveled.
Thats what im talkin about!:evil: 400 FPS IBO? im sure its attainable, but I have a feeling it will take some new and interesting gadgets to get there. I cant see that kind of speed out of our standard issue bows.
Your right, killing a buck has everything to do with speed...? I never discredited what you said, just said HCA isn't the holy grail for speed. It is just your arrow weight. Would an Elite or PSE not make the speeds you posted? I said IBO is the industry standard that all bows can compare to, but that was enough to send you off into your chest thumping I killed 4 bucks story yet again? Where did that entire tangent even come from? lol You put your money where your mouth is? Toothfairy or red robin hood? :d ok? You are successful at killing the deer you are interested in killing, cool. Congratulations, you are the greatest. Everyone a round of applause for the king....But that is completely off topic from what we are even discussing. Chill out a bit, and reread what I wrote....never claimed you were wrong, just that it isn't rocket science to shoot the speeds you are...you decrease arrow weight. Any bow with decent limbs can take the same abuse HCA can, but whatever. You seem kinda paranoid that everyone is against you from that last post? Who EVER said your setup won't work or that you are wrong? Hell, I just asked opinions on an IBO setup making 400 fps in the near future. Never said your BH was short, or you shoot an unshootable bow...I was talking bows within IBO specs.
Hell they probably already have bows that do that, they just need to sell a bunch of bows that do 340fps+, 350fps+ and 375fps first so they can make a bunch of money! Why would they jump from 300fps+ to 400fps+ and not make all that money in between!
So what are you shooting quik? I am not doubting your words, I have seen it first hand. Just curious with the setup you are getting it out of.
quik, I'm turning the same trophy bucks in as you, 2 this year with 280 ft per second. I'm surprised it actually did the job. And I'm not allowed to have an opinion because of my signature huh? That's a cop out. Thing is, I won't need to drop to your arrow to get that speed and she'll hold. :d
Well crap, if the speed of your bow dictates your success, then I am going to try building some arrows out of drinking straws. Anybody wanna buy a dozen off me?
Just depends...what are they going for? and what speeds can I get? I want to get up to 2 bucks a year too!
Well Trevor, I still have some kinks to work out, but I am planning on selling them for around $185.00 a dozen. As far as speeds go, well, I could easily see you getting between 435-465 f.p.s. I may come out with a "high tech" model that will feature an unique "s-weave" pattern utilizing duct tape. This will not only add to the already sturdy spine on these bad boys, but I am pretty sure it is going to cause internal combustion in the deer creating short bloodtrails as well as eliminating the need to cook your deer. :d
Don't trip over your own two feet while you're backtracking there TEmbry. LOL You simply inferred that a sub-ibo setup isn't "shootable." I've gone one step further, and hunted with one. Successfully. Going further, you pulled out the "industry standard" b.s. IMO, the only current "industry standards" are overpricing and underperformance. Rob: I'm not discrediting what you do. Just saying. You're towing the company line, as is Scott. Just calling a spade a spade, and bringing some real-world experience to this conversation. You know as well as I do why Bowtech does not and will not carry a 3 gpp warranty. ________________________________________________________________________________________ TEmbry - Let me give you a couple great pieces of wisdom, straight from the mouth of a great American bowhunting hero: Do you know how many deer will ever fall over dead at the base of your tree because you're hunting within the confines of the IBO recommendations? Zero. Do you know how many times you'll settle back at full draw on a shooter buck and wonder what some geriatric schmuck at the IBO, or some internet wanna-bee thinks about the ethical killing power of your arrow weight? Zero. Do you know how many deer will care what kind of bow you're shooting? Or how fast it's going? Zero. None of it matters. You either get it done, or you do not get it done. KB - HCA Iron mace w/ String Tamer & some kind of 15 dollar rubber stabilizer. Scott - when did Bowtech go to a laminated limb? Made in-house or outsourced? I had no idea. Gordon components? Pardon my ignorance on that one. I thought they were still using all compression-composite.
