Speed arrows for hunting.

Discussion in 'Tech Talk' started by abates352, Aug 30, 2015.

  1. Captn Kirk

    Captn Kirk Weekend Warrior

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    I shoot the HEXX (speed arrow?) for the following it was the lightest shaft @ 7.9 gr per inch with the 330 spine. i am 28 inch draw at 70 lbs out of a Chill R i added 50 gr to the tip and have an overall arrow wight of 420 gr with a 12.5 FOC and i am getting around 289 ft pr sec. I am using a 100 gr NAP spitfire 1.5 in mechanical. this setup has been awesome. To me the lighter the shaft the more room for a better FOC At 70 lbs i use 6 gr per pound. I also think the lighter the poundage the gr per pound will need to go up to get the proper setup
     
  2. Rampaige

    Rampaige Die Hard Bowhunter

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    What's harder to stop? A finish nail traveling at 400 FPS or a railroad spike at 300 FPS? It's pretty easy to argue you don't need a heavy arrow when you have proper shot placement, but what happens when that arrow finds the scapula by accident; a completely honest mistake (it does happen, even to great archers). I'll side with a heavy arrow over a fast one any day.

    Edit:

    You also mention you want speed to increase your distance. Once critical thing to keep in mind is a lighter arrow DOES NOT retain energy as long down range. A heavier arrow will retain more kinetic energy down range, therefore, if you plan on shooting a farther distance you're definitely going to want the added momentum at the greater distance.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2015
  3. ShaneB22

    ShaneB22 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Well he could, but that doesn't mean he would hit anything.
     
  4. davidingle

    davidingle Weekend Warrior

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    THIS. You can get pass throughs all day hitting between ribs but everyones going to make a mistake and hit a shoulder blade eventually.
     
  5. JDUB

    JDUB Weekend Warrior

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    OP, why switch from the AXIS if you already have some set up...but if you must then I would recommend you go with the same diameter class .204 ID like Black Eagle Rampage or Victory RIP...they will have a lighter GPI for spine that the Easton Axis and get you some more speed and still have a perfectly adequate and reasonable finished hunting weight arrow. If you want to ensure better penetration with your speed you can go down to a .165ID arrow like the Victory VAPs. I don't care who says they don't penetrate, they do! Unless you've tried them you don't know...they will out penetrate any other arrow with similar weight. I've shot them for the past 2 years very successfully but recently switched to the Black Eagle Rampages because I prefer the tougher insert system.
     
  6. abates352

    abates352 Weekend Warrior

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    So it would be popular belief to shoot my current setup, and stay shooting almost twice the recommended KE necessary to put down a whitetail deer. I am currently shooting out to 80 yards. if I go back any farther with my HHA Optimizer lite, the pin will drop out of my peep sight. I still have plenty of adjustment on the sight to go further, and also plenty of clearance as far as the arrow coming off of the rest. I was just looking for a way to gain a little speed to hit that 100 yard mark. I by no means am trying to shoot a 350grain arrow, but not sure I need a 495 grain arrow. I guess I was looking for a compromise.
     
  7. JDUB

    JDUB Weekend Warrior

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    Ok then I second my recommendation to try the Black Eagle Rampages...you can build a finished arrow weight around 400-415gr with a relatively high FOC (56gr insert and 100gr head) and still be very deadly to whitetail deer. You'll still have the .204 shaft to allow better long range shooting. Or if you really like 100 yard shots try the VAPs
     
  8. Sticknstringarchery

    Sticknstringarchery Grizzled Veteran

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    So, get a target sight for your 100yd practice sessions and a .270 for hunting.

    Seriously though I'm not sure why you are trying to extend your range to 100yd for bow hunting but, after the testing I have done over the past nearly 2 years, there is no way I would lighten my arrow to get an extra 20yd. Other than that I think you are missing the point of bowhunting.

    You do understand that your KE calculation is right out of the bow with the arrow traveling at optimum speed don't you? At 80yd, your KE has significantly dropped. Like stated before momentum is key. Not as much KE.


    Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
     
  9. abates352

    abates352 Weekend Warrior

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    I don't remember stating that I was going to shoot game at 100 yards!!!! I apologize for offending all the fans of heavy arrows, which is myself as well. I am shooting a nearly 500 grain arrow, which is probably more than most. I just cant afford to have two or three different setups. I also enjoy target shooting as well as hunting. Like I stated before I was looking for a compromise. I figured an arrow in the 400-425 grain range would be enough to do the trick at 40-50 yds. For those that made recommendations, I appreciate it. I believe I will look into the Easton Hexx and VAP's.
     
  10. recurvestalker

    recurvestalker Weekend Warrior

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    I shoot 70#, 28.5 draw length. Last year I did what you are talking about. I switched from my easton acc hunters to the axis. I also switched from steelheads to miniblasters to save another 25 grains. I forget the finished weight of the arrows, but i think I dropped around a 100 grains, like 25% of my arrow weight. Well november 11 rolls around and we get a nice snow over night, and I get out early, and just after shooting light starts, pre-sunrise, a 130-140' buck cruises through my lane. I was just getting settled down, so the sight of this beast so early jolts me with adrenaline, and to make a long story short, I shoot that buck in the shoulder at 20 yards. I get at most 6" of penetration and a broken arrow, and end up tracking the buck about a mile until he stops bleeding.
    I immediately switched back to my acc hunters and 100 gr broadheads. Obviously shot placement is everything, but If that exact situation occurs again, I want to blow out his shoulders if at all possible.
    no it probably wont matter on does, and young bucks, and if your shot placement is perfect who cares, but when you have heavy gloves on and a twitchy leg and a trophy buck in the sights, you want all the help you can get.
     
  11. kurveball18

    kurveball18 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I would stay with the Axis. Their is a reason they are still one of the most popular hunting shafts. They are built tough and hit hard. Your dw is 70 pounds so i'm sure you are shooting over 275 fps which is Plenty fast enough to kill deer/elk/bear etc. Don't get caught up in all the hype about speed. If you go super light, your basically going to be flinging light little sticks that will be much more affected by any wind and will lose a tone of penetration/momentum to drive the arrow through the animal.
     
  12. roadrunner

    roadrunner Weekend Warrior

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    Here is what I did this year. Switched to a HEXX shaft cut to 28". Added a 50 gr brass insert and using a 100 gr FP/BH and arrow speed is 305 fps, arrow weight is 400 gr FOC is 15.2-16% depending on the method used. At 27 yards this year, had a double lung complete pass through on a very large cow elk (about the same size of a medium size bull). Could not find the arrow anywhere. Granted, yes, it's probably in the underbrush. But, it wasn't just sitting on the ground either. Long story short, it performed just like the FMJ's I shot last year and the Axis the year before that, only with about 35-40 fps more speed. This means flatter trajectory to help in situations where clear shot paths are not trimmed out.

    There is always a marginal point to where weight ain't everything and neither is speed. A razor sharp broadhead can also do wonders for penetration as well.

    I would say give the HEXX a try. Light arrow but enough backbone to give accuracy. A higher FOC would contribute more for penetration than just a heavy arrow overall and is easier to achieve with a lighter arrow. Think of the lawn darts backyard game...

    Good luck and have fun experimenting!!!
     
  13. BowhuntOnly

    BowhuntOnly Weekend Warrior

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    All interesting thoughts here. I did some research related to speed, kinetic Energy and weight or mass a year ago and I still go back to my standard Easton axis arrows. Ultimately accuracy kills deer. With todays compound bows and the right arrow selection and an accurate shot - you are good!

    The original question of extending range can be achieved with faster speed if you drop the weight. I have personally tested this, like many of the bowhunters on this forum. The balance of the arrow or FOC has to be considered with the change because it may impact your accuracy or consistency. One additional method of increasing speed and not changing weight is to reduce your arrow diameter, which provides less friction on the arrow (The finish on the arrow has some effect on friction - but not enough to notice much of a speed difference.)

    Just my thoughts - PM me if you interested in the research I did. I wrote two articles related to kinetic energy, speed, weight, accuracy and comparing Axis and Carbon Express weight forward technology. Good luck this year!
     

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