In order not to hijack another thread, post your questions about religion here and hopefully others can answer for you. I'll start it off by answering some questions posted on the other thread. PART ONE As a believer, how do you explain and or justify... - Where God came from? Do you question where the oxygen atom you just inhaled came from or do you just live with it? If you can accept that it is just there to breathe, why would you question where God came from? Why is God referred to as "he" or "Him" when with almighty powers, gender and reproduction would not be necessary? According to the three major monotheistic religions, why did God create Adam first? Since Adam was created first in God’s image and Adam was a man, God is referred to as “He” or “Him”. - the Salem witch trials where women were burned alive for different beliefs. At the Salem Witch Trials, women were found guilty of being witches for the personal gain of others. They were hung for being witches, not burned. In the case of Susanna North Martin, she was found guilty because after being widowed, a wealthy community leader wanted her land and she refused to sell it. She continuously sued anyone who tried to dictate her place in society and ended up dying for not being subservient to men. - The Crusades? Muslims had attacked and taken control of the eastern Roman Empire to include the holy land. Under the direction of the Pope, Crusaders went to the Middle East in attempts to return control to Christians. Did you intentionally take a piece of history without the history leading up to it to base your question on this or was it because you only know bits and pieces instead of the whole picture? - Tricking first nations peoples into believing their illnesses would be alleviated once converted to Christianity... their demise was inevitable due to a lack of antibodies to European illnesses. Government action to resettle native North Americans were policies enacted in all of North America (USA, Mexico and Canada). Where do you get your information? So far, every one of your assumptions is incorrect. Christianity is not about your physical welfare on earth, but leading to your eternal welfare in heaven. - Invasions of foreign countries like Iraq and Afghanistan where thousands were killed. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were and are controlled by not only the American government, but also by that of other countries. Christianity had nothing to do with the wars. Canada participated in the war in Afghanistan, are you somehow correlating government actions with religious beliefs? If so, once again you are incorrect. - Slavery, rampant across the USA for decades and centuries... does the Bible not say that all men shall be treated equally? The Declaration of Independence says that all men are created equal. The Bible says that one Christian will not enslave another. The New Testament gives direction to Christians who were slaves of others on how to act. It also says that if a slave runs away from his master and comes to you, as a Christian you have a duty to protect them. Slavery still exists in parts of the world today and existed long before America was ever founded. Have you switched from questioning religion to attacking America’s history or are you confusing the two? - Do you believe the women are on earth for men? God made woman from the rib of man. Not from his foot to be walked on, not from his back to be a follower, but from his side to walk along with; and having come from man’s rib, man and woman are forever connected. God made Eve so Adam would not be alone and would have a mate. There are the two genders for the perpetuation of the human race. - How do you feel about other races? What does a person’s race have to do with Christianity? Absolutely nothing! There are Christians of all races, just as there are Muslims of all races. Why would someone be foolish enough to think that only one race can be Christian? - Do you believe in extra terrestrials? Depends on what you perceive as “extra-terrestrials”. Angels are “extra-terrestrials.” If in that sense, yes. If you are asking about little green people from another planet, I have no idea how many planets throughout the universe God has created and populated. I also have no idea how they would adapt to their environments which would adjust their appearance now if they do exist. I have enough to worry about managing what God puts on my plate than to spend a lot of time questioning God’s big picture. - Are non-christians (roughly 6 billion of the 7 billion on earth) immediately not going to heaven as a result of the beliefs? What happened to the millions of people before Christianity was formed? Chinese beliefs span a far longer period of time for example. First of all, out of the 7.021 Billion people on earth, 2.1 Billion are Christian, 1.6 Billion are Muslims, and .014 Billion are Jewish. Together they make up under the God of Abraham 53% of the world’s population. Christianity alone makes up 30%. If you want to know what happens to non-believers, wait for your Judgment Day and ask God. Also, do your math; there are approximately 7.021 billion people on earth. Of those, approximately 2.1 billion are Christian. If you subtract the first from the second, you get 4.921 billion. A 14% error in your math shows that your statement is not only false, but not even well thought out. - Evolution Evolution as Darwin theorized has long since been disproven. Environmental adaptation does not mean anything other than God gave us the ability to adapt to our environments. Many scientists are also religious which shows that evolution (adaptation) and creationism not only can, but do work together.
Part Two Do you not owe it to yourself to investigate other religious beliefs? Do you go out and investigate the lives of your neighbors so you can better understand them? Or, as evidenced throughout this, do you make assumptions without the knowledge or facts to back them up? The Amish know very little of the outside world and cultures other than their own and yet seem to successfully function within their own communities quite well. You owe it to yourself to know your own religious beliefs and strive to abide by them. The Bible says “When the Lord your God cuts off before you the nations whom you go in to dispossess, and you dispossess them and dwell in their land, take care that you be not ensnared to follow them, after they have been destroyed before you, and that you do not inquire about their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods?—that I also may do the same.’ You shall not worship the Lord your God in that way, for every abominable thing that the Lord hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods. Deuteronomy 12:29-31 Would investigation not foster greater understanding of others... something taught in the Bible? Actually the Bible teaches against this as related in the previous answer. If you don’t have other cultures in your community and restrict your actions to that community, would beliefs and actions foreign to your own be beneficial? I have experienced many cultures and beliefs around the world. If their beliefs don’t contradict mine, I get along with them just fine. Where they differ, I have distanced myself from them to avoid insulting someone in their own environment. When in Rome, don't insult the Romans. Are you familiar with the Koran or other religious based books? Personally, I am. The Quran and the teachings of Buddha were books I read when I turned my back on my religion while telling myself that I could better understand others if I knew what they believed. As far as the Quran, it teaches that Jesus was a prophet, not the prophesized Christ, but even Islam is based on the Old Testament and the God of Abraham. Do you not think being open-minded to other possibilities would strengthen your belief or are you afraid of the potential outcome towards your current beliefs.. change is intimidating. Are you asking others this or questioning yourself? When your faith in your religion is strong, knowledge of other beliefs can strengthen your own beliefs. Fear has nothing to do with it. It is only when you are unsure of yourself that you feel threatened by other possibilities. I personally prefer to believe in what I have facts for. I have factual information that clearly illustrates misuse of religion for one reason or another leading to global atrocities. I see on a daily basis global conflicts resulting from different belief systems. How can one adopt and support a cause that perpetuates division when in fact, we are all the same. Your problem here is associating government action with a certain faith by your aforementioned statements and interrogatories. However, if governments and people throughout the world based their actions on the New Testament, there would be less war. But God gave us free will, there will always be those who abuse others for their own personal gain. As with every race, religion and ethnicity, there are those who are good people and those who are bad. If you stereotype like you have throughout this, it shows a lack of ability to fathom this and intolerance for those who believe different from yourself. I have absolutely no factual evidence to support a belief in God, Buddha, Shiva, tooth fairies, Santa, leprechauns or many other entities used for spiritual contentment. Having said that, IF evidence was available to support any one of these "entities", my beliefs would change given ample evidence collected through an unbiased scientifically relevant approach. The statistical probability of "life" off of earth (as some form of conscious entity) is far greater than the probability that God exists therefore I am more open to extra terrestrials than God. Most importantly however, I am always looking for answers rather than being closed to new suggestions, ideas and evidence. First, let’s look at your existence as you see it. Your perception of yourself and your beliefs from what you consider factual have been greatly debunked. So the probability of you living as the creature you see yourself as is infinitesimal due to bias. Kurt Gödel was a renowned mathematician and a friend of Albert Einstein. He set out to mathematically disprove God and ended up proving that the probabilities of man evolving from a single cell structure to an advanced state while no other creature on earth made advancements even similar were so astronomical that it exceeded feasibility. Mr. Gödel, went from being agnostic at best, to a person of faith. Another thing to ponder is Pascal’s Wager. Pascal was a 17[SUP]th[/SUP] Century French philosopher who came up with the following: How do you want to hedge your bets? If you are a Christian, when you die you go to heaven for eternity if you are right about God’s existence. If you are wrong, you’ll be dead and not know that you were wrong. If you are an atheist, and you are right about God, you’ll never know because you’re dead. However, if you are wrong, you have to stand before God for judgment while facing an eternity in hell. So, how would you want to face eternity? Finally, I had a fellow student in my ethics class that kept touting his atheism and how science through evolution and big bang proves there is no God. He had a bad habit of berating those who are people of faith. He said he based his belief on scientific facts and evidence. When I reminded him that evolution and big bang are both theories and are not proven facts but are hypothesis based upon faith in a belief system just like the religions of the world are based on faith in a belief, he was upset and became more vocal about his atheism. At the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] to the last class, I walked in with a chemistry set with all the chemicals in the human body, a bottle of sterilized water and gave them to him. I explained what I had given him and told him not to make a human, but a single cell amoeba. He said he couldn’t. I told him to give the chemistry set to any scientist to do it for him and he said “it can’t be done.” I said “That’s right; it can’t be done because it is beyond the realm of the nature of science to create life from where there was none. This then disproves your beliefs about the “facts” and “evidence.” It also points to an outside influence creating man, not chance. Now, if you are open to other ideas as you suggest, contemplate these responses for a while.
Wow, there is so many things in your post I wouldn't know where to start. And since religion is such a touchy subject and neither one of us will be able to change the others mind, I wont.
Kind of confused iowa. Are these questions or statements something you've grabbed from somewhere? To further clarify I'm guessing you're the one with the short answer answering those questions/statements?
I think that if people post real questions they have, this could be very productive. If you want this thread to be a productive debate then I don't think it will work out well.
Let me post a question so you can tell me I'm wrong? Sounds fun... How about you post a question and I will answer it for you?
Well Wisco, if you are one who needs coddling and told everything is okay when its not, I can see where you'd be upset by someone who is straight forward setting the facts straight with someone else. I printed my answers straight forward without leeway for misinterpretation and if that bothers you, I don't know what to tell you Bud.
Great responses... Thank you. I get the feeling that I have hit some nerves here, which was not the intension but another indication for me to disregard any belief in a "formal" sort of belief system which through indoctrination "forces" belief. Absence of evidence for god or the ability to create life from your bottle of water does not indicate clear proof of a higher order/being. I am comfortable not knowing where an atom of oxygen originates but I refuse to give credit to something without evidence.. I'd prefer to leave the answer unanswered. Scientific understandings in many cases have explained what once was thought to be the hand of god.. Thunderstorms, gravity, disease etc etc.. As knowledge progresses your questions may some day be answered.. These results may indicate a god or not. As for other previous content... We both have facts incorrect but when I originally posted, I was not citing references and was rushed for responses as questions were rapidly coming to mind. T
- Invasions of foreign countries like Iraq and Afghanistan where thousands were killed. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were and are controlled by not only the American government, but also by that of other countries. Christianity had nothing to do with the wars. Canada participated in the war in Afghanistan, are you somehow correlating government actions with religious beliefs? If so, once again you are incorrect. The content for this question arose In a debate about abortion which was being frowned upon as a result of religious assertions. Though shalt not kill....my comments/question was made to question whether killing can be justified in some contexts but frowned upon in others... Eg. Abortion. So although Christianity had nothing transparently to so with the wars, I was asking for view points on this since many were opposing abortion under the direction of the bible which states though shall not kill. The same questioning was used in relation to other historical atrocities based on religious principles. T
- How do you feel about other races? What does a person’s race have to do with Christianity? Absolutely nothing! There are Christians of all races, just as there are Muslims of all races. Why would someone be foolish enough to think that only one race can be Christian? Perhaps review content from the abortion in youtube issue... Since several posters were opposed to abortion, I was attempting to inquire about other beliefs they had. Christianity as with all other religions is of course multiculturally based. T
That was a little condescending with the coddling comment. They are answers that YOU believe to be facts. If I wanted to get dragged into this I could spend the afternoon putting up answers that I believe to be facts that contradicts what you believe. But I don't want to spend the time doing that.... You have a nice Saturday afternoon and I hope you have a great mothers day tomorrow.
- Tricking first nations peoples into believing their illnesses would be alleviated once converted to Christianity... their demise was inevitable due to a lack of antibodies to European illnesses. Government action to resettle native North Americans were policies enacted in all of North America (USA, Mexico and Canada). Where do you get your information? So far, every one of your assumptions is incorrect. Christianity is not about your physical welfare on earth, but leading to your eternal welfare in heaven. There is significant evidence through many sources illustrating the original intent of Jesuit missionaries spreading the word of god to First Nations peoples. Their word spreading also brought disease which many (not all) peoples were unable to cope with as a result of immunity issues and new diseases... These new diseases killed huge numbers of aboriginal peoples in NA. There is evidence of Jesuit missionaries using claims for gods healing powers in the event of conversion to Christianity from traditional First Nations polytheistic based belief systems. Despite conversions, natives still died, leading to the demise of the missionaries (in some cases) at the hand of these people as their god and their word had not come to fruition.... Hard to blame the natives in this case in my opinion frankly. This was but one of countless examples of aboriginal abuses leading to their demise. I brought this forward because I was investigating the thought process involved in a belief system that worked in that way. I would have at tough time associating with any system that uses fear, misinformation and deceit for indoctrination. T
How do you want to hedge your bets? If you are a Christian, when you die you go to heaven for eternity if you are right about God’s existence. If you are wrong, you’ll be dead and not know that you were wrong. If you are an atheist, and you are right about God, you’ll never know because you’re dead. However, if you are wrong, you have to stand before God for judgment while facing an eternity in hell. So, how would you want to face eternity? Why would I want eternity I heaven, hell or somewhere else? How can you be an atheist and be right about god... That implies that the atheist would believe in god (according to your beliefs), and that god exists... An atheist typically would not believe in god. T
I agree! It is the nature of posts in this thread and in a few others recently or contacts with "religious" people that I have experienced that turn me off of Belief and understanding in any formal religion... The apparent forcefulness used is tantamount to brainwashing and tactics used by many dictators of the past. I understand "good Christians " help spread the world of god... Does being a more forceful one make you a better Christian? The tone, forcefulness and manner in which content about god is shared makes me question the level of understanding of other religions and belief systems that many of these people have. As well as their belief systems towards social components like racial structure, homosexuality, abortion, politics etc. I question their intent, their understandings of others and their openness to new ideas. Happy Mother's Day to you too grnhd! T UOTE=grnhd;911559]That was a little condescending with the coddling comment. They are answers that YOU believe to be facts. If I wanted to get dragged into this I could spend the afternoon putting up answers that I believe to be facts that contradicts what you believe. But I don't want to spend the time doing that.... You have a nice Saturday afternoon and I hope you have a great mothers day tomorrow.[/QUOTE]
Finally, I had a fellow student in my ethics class that kept touting his atheism and how science through evolution and big bang proves there is no God. He had a bad habit of berating those who are people of faith. He said he based his belief on scientific facts and evidence. When I reminded him that evolution and big bang are both theories and are not proven facts but are hypothesis based upon faith in a belief system just like the religions of the world are based on faith in a belief, he was upset and became more vocal about his atheism. At the 2nd to the last class, I walked in with a chemistry set with all the chemicals in the human body, a bottle of sterilized water and gave them to him. I explained what I had given him and told him not to make a human, but a single cell amoeba. He said he couldn’t. I told him to give the chemistry set to any scientist to do it for him and he said “it can’t be done.” I said “That’s right; it can’t be done because it is beyond the realm of the nature of science to create life from where there was none. This then disproves your beliefs about the “facts” and “evidence.” It also points to an outside influence creating man, not chance. Agreed... They are "just theories" and they will and have changed in understanding.... I expect them to... However, there is more concrete evidence to support these theories than there is for evidence of a go, so I am far more inclined believe these. What I find interesting is that people always seem to be able to apply god to these scientific theories... Creationism and the Big Bang etc.... Started by god.... Explaining the unknown as actions of god without ample evidence is questionable.
