It seems that there may be an obsession with getting not just pass thrus, but having like 8" of your bury into the ground on the other side of the deer....I mean I like KE as much as the next guy, but man those guys on AT are all about some serious KE!! Is there really in need in trying to achieve this much KE?
No.... I pushed a 2 blade rage through both shoulders of a 200+ pound whitetail last year out of a 60# bow shooting 375 grain arrows. This is the entrance.. The exit was squarely through the meatiest part of the shoulder.
yeh it comes from the BH threads over there..I agree, I like a pass thru too, but these guys are pissed if they don't get the pick axe out to pry their heads out of the ground...it certainly is a good thing, it no way can I see it being a negative to have that much KE, but to go bow legged and blind trying to get it?? just over kill IMO..buckeye, what kind of KE do get with that set up?
Jeff and a boubt in my mind withthat arrow you showed us the other day.. buckeye, that's a lot of KE for that set up!! I wish I could get that much!
I actally talked to a guy that said he preferred NOT getting passthrus. He thought it would do more damage while stuck in the deer. Which may sometimes be true but I tried to explain I'd take a passthru anyday. Sometimes the arrow is the only piece of evidence you have on whether you hit/missed said deer. I haven't figured my KE yet on my new setup but I'd say its around 70 or so. IMO, Some of those guys on AT are trying to overcompensate for something they're lacking.
I know how you feel about being a short draw and KE. I have a 26" draw and my arrow weight is around 345 grains. I'm shooting right at 250fps at 60lbs. Not sure what mine is, but I am sure it is low.
Hmmm... I have a rather simple setup that works for me (see my signature). My setup calculates out to 67.86 K/E. I tried shooting my bow at 70#, but the pro shop noticed me starting to struggle a bit with it and not drawing it as smooth. 65# was easy for me, so we decided to settle on my upper limit of draw strength and comfort - 68# and that's where it stays. Pass thru's? Magnus Stingers at 67.86 K/E will pass through anything!
Here's an online calculator for K/E: http://www.archeryhq.com/kin.htm Here's a really cool online FOC calculator: Note: you'd have to do like I did and tie a piece of fishing line on your arrow to get a proper balance point, then mark that spot with a pencil. http://www.odproshops.com/foccalculator.htm
My arrow is right at 390 grains and is pushing 304 FPS, I used the first link above and it tells me I have over 77lbs of KE. That is a pretty high number.
Let's break this down to common sense ....... why WOULDN'T you want the most from your setup??? Now I am not talking about the perfect set-up where you shoot a deer broadside at 15 yards right behind the front leg as he stands still .....ANY untuned low poundage bow shooting a field tip will get it done on a whitetail.... look at Scott's buck .... thru both shoulders with a Rage ......complete pass-thru .... not all bows will do Now let's bring in the 30 yard shot where he is quartering away and then he turns at the shot .... happens ALOT .... a properly tuned bow shooting the best FOC it can AND with the highest poundage the hunter can comfortably shoot ...it will yield results FAR SUPERIOR to a guy shooting an out of tune bow with bad FOC or too low poundage ....... Jeff's response was right on ...
And so is yours :D . IMO the more arrow weight (slower arrow speed), more FOC and even more guidance (fletching - 4 instead of 3) the more forgiveness you give your actual shot. A 350grain arrow with 8% FOC but it will also react more aggressively(badly) when outside factors affect the shot. If the archer is torqueing the bow a little and doesn't have good follow through the light, fast, low FOC arrow will be much more unforgiving and miss by much more than just a bit. I have seen this myself just shooting fromthe ground at a stationary target with no wind. Imagine how unforgiving the shot will be out of a treestand, archer twisted around, a cross breeze and a target that can move 6 inches in one step. If the arrow is off target by 6 inches too...... There is a lot of talk about arrow setup and what is "correct" and bow setup and what is "correct" but IMO the bow and arrow setup should be done with "forgiveness" of a less than perfect shot in mind. A tuned bow and a well built arrow tuned to the bow will allow for much more forgiveness of a bad shot than an untuned bow and a poorly built arrow in a bad marriage.
Don't disagree with anything you said PT but it is worth mentioning that the above highlight is where the "slippery slope" begins. "Comfortably shoot" is very subjective and as we all know what one can comfortably shoot in the backyard in tennis shoes and shorts on flat ground can be much different than what ine can "comfortably shoot" up in a tree in cold weather and bulky clothes on. I see too many people over reach their poundage for the quest of KE and speed when they would be better off backing the poundage off a little. Me?? I've got my limbs cranked all the way down, so obviously this principle does not apply to me.
