I am all for a medical healthcare accounts and Tort reform. Two Items not in this bill which I am reading, I think would go a long way. The wingnuts on the right plan to do nothing is not going to work, the wingnuts plan on the left to cover everyone with goverment plan is not going to work either. We have to cherry pick IMO and meet in the center.
Think about this. Those of you that listen to Rush remember his visit to the hospital in Hawaii? He paid his bill out of his own pocket and because of that, the hospital gave him a 35% discount!! That's partially what is wrong with the healthcare system. 35% overhead for insurance.
I ask for the fourth time Jeff What in this current Bill are the items you do not like? What makes it that the sky is falling? How is it going to drive up healthcare cost? Is it going to increase the deficit? As it stands now, there is no "public" option Is a little more oversight on Insurance Companies bad? Is consumer protection bad for healthcare? Should Insurances companies be able to drop you if you get sick? Restrict the amount they pay out? Should the amount of testing be for what we need? Or for what Doctors won't get sued for? I hear a lot of soundbites, but no facts about this bill.
Gary.... I answered all your questions in this thread, already. Go back and look. If you still can't find the answers within......ask again.
if you are so inclined to take a read by the late great Economics professor Milton Friedman on how to fix health care.... http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/3459466.html
Pro 24:21 My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change: [this is my favorite President Obama verse] 22 For their calamity shall rise suddenly; and who knoweth the ruin of them both?
Thank you He's right on here, Whole Foods does this model for their workforce. They saved a lot of coin and provide quality care. I also think these accounts should transfer between Jobs.
Gary: Your ability (or lack, thereof) to comprehend what's been said......has no bearing on the information being presented. It's there. If you don't understand it......don't blame me. “Hey Biff guess what? After we go to the drugstore and the post office, I’m going to the vet’s to get tutored!” =============================== Good luck with that, Germ.
All you said were talking points Jeff. I can listen to Limbaugh, Hannity or Foxnews and hear the same gibberish
"Talking points"?????????????????????? Who's going to insure the 32M current uninsured..........and who's going to pay that invoice? Who pays for the millions who drop their current ins., when it becomes unaffordable? Talking points? I wish that's all they were. I liked it better when we were just debating the possibility of this.
Yep, LOL Who's projections? Besides the 32 million people mark, the rest has zero based in fact. Just speculation, I could dig up the same gibbershish on how it's going to lower cost. The fact is WE DON"T know, just talking points. BTW I don't believe the other wingnuts either. As for the 32 million, who is paying for their healthcare now? I think we are, so how to we fix this problem?
in the article I linked above, Friedman comments about how 'insurance' is so radically different a term for health care than anything else.... makes the comparison to auto insurance in that insurance is for catastrophic things like accidents, not putting gas in the car, or compares it to home owners in that it covers a fire but doesn't cover mowing the lawn... makes an excellent point.
That was a great article!!!! Stossel had a great line also. Just think if we could shop like we use Health Insurance, we'd buy everything There are oversight items I am all for in this bill, but there are items I want out also. I have to get through 1990 pages to figure this out. Jeff thanks for a good debate, it's good to debate!! To finished the current system we have now was going to bankrupt us for sure, this new one I don't know, but I believe it needs some major changes IMO.
Gary: The numbers are out there. Other than the 32M figure (which I think is low), I found the rest, pretty easily (avg cost of helathcare) and simply multiplied ($150,000,000,000.00 figure). How are you gonna make someone buy insurance under Obamacare? I'm talking about the people who won't feed their kids or attempt to employ themselves? He's going to make the people with good policies pay for the others. And, when they can no longer afford theirs.....they'll take the public option. If you don't think there's a public option........where's Obama gonna place the people who refuse to purchase their own policy??? If I have a bow shop.....and the gov't tells me I have to supply bows to everyone in my zip code......I'm gonna have to charge the people who CAN but them more......so I can GIVE them to the ones who can't afford them....or refuse to purchase them. Insurance companies aren't any different. "But the Gov't will be subsidizing the ins. co's"! Let me explain something......the US Gov't can't give to anyone........something that is doesn't TAKE from someone else. If you're a taker......good for you. If you're being taken from........well......your cost of living is getting ready to take a hit.
What's wrong Gary, you don't listen to the doap head Limbaugh, or watch the self proclaimed Prophet Glenn Beck. I guess you think your smarter than every one else now just because your taking the time to read the darn thing and are able to make decision based on knowledge. You don't actually belive the CBO can add do you. Have you got to the part where the Death Panels are going to kill our grandparents or where the Doctors are going to dumb up and provide less than adequate care yet.
Most of that is peer speculation, very little fact. The ones not working now are already getting free healthcare on our bill, the question I have is which system cost more?
Show me a nationalized helathcare nation where this hasn't happened. Gary.....the 32M DO NOT currently have healthcare. They are guaranteed emergency care. There's a big difference. "Doap head".....lol. Ad Hominem, at its' finest (albeit laughable). If you can't dispell a man's points......degrade the man. Par. Like I said........
Jeff's last point here holds merit (at least to me on the surface). I'm going to ask a debatable question (and it's an honest one in which I'm actually curious to hear some educated responses). For those who are cautiously optimistic about this bill (or even supportive), here's some food for thought: My parents own a cottage in Canada. We've been going there for over 20 years, and in the last 10 years we've gotten to know our neighbors very well. We KNOW their healthcare system is terrible. Many of them have come to the United States for procedures that had too long of a wait time, or were denied medical care due to, essentially, a "death panel" like decision. Our one neighbor has a 25 yr old daughter with a heart condition that has required two surgeries, and now a third is needed. She was denied the surgery, and as such, she has traveled to the U.S. to have it done. I have an Aunt-in-law (is that a real thing?:D) who lived in England for 15+ years. She ALSO can attest to their terrible healthcare. So we KNOW that a nationalized healthcare system is not the BEST option for quality care. So, what about this bill, and the new established system is different? What is going to make this work when all others have failed?
