Sorry. No, you can't. This is simple physics. Check the ballistics on a few rifle rounds. See if they shoot "flat". Compare that to your bow's fps.
When we think of "flat" we are saying that its within a reasonable amount....and i had a 380gr arrow shooting the same at 33yds as 20 =[]
Oct....I have no intentions of debating this with you. I'll just refer you to a post Bruce made to you on another thread, as to why I interjected, here. Good luck.
He is saying physics will not allow an arrow to fly flat at those distances. It is impossible, gravity and drag will not allow it. What you are seeing is human error in your group shooting making you believe that the bow is shooting that flat, when in fact it is just your groups at those yardages are overlapping one another.
At 400fps an arrow is 1.8 inches higher at 20 yards than at 33. I am not sure your bow was shooting 400fps.
it was shooting 338 and buckeye most likley said it that i was just messing up....just seems like i was shooting flat...
The previous post was the aim point distance at 33 yards. If you make the aim point distance 20 yards then the arrow drops 2.96 inches at 33 yards. Still at 400fps.
I went to check things at 338 fps and found that the program defaulted to 375 fps so, the above numbers should be referenced at 375 not 400. At 338 the numbers change to 2.59 inches and 4.27 inches.
That is plenty flat to adjust the pin to be just slightly high at 20 and just slightly low at 33 and still be well within the kill zone if you prefer a single pin. No need to change.
Go look at the variances (drop in inches) Bruce gave you, again. These aren't Bruce's opinions. He's cited you laws of physics. And, you're telling us you're shooting tighter groups than physics will allow? What does this tell you/us? There's a couple of simple answers. And, I'll give you the chance to pick the right one.:D Option 1: I am either consciously or subconsciously compensating. Option 2: I can't hold tight enough groups. Therefore, the laws of physics can't be tested by them.
Your right, they have changed it (400 to 300 min in Idaho) and I was unaware... Sorry about that! ... OK so now... I have other ???? since I have never shot anything remotely close to that light of a set up...Is 300 even that realistic for a whitetail? I have NO experience with any arrow set up under 425- 450 grains.. second, if 300 grains can get the job done on Whitetails.. is there now the possibility of being realatively flat out to 40... ?? Am I compensating too much KE for speed and tradjectory ... I have a feeling I will end up finding the right set up for a whitetail bow somewhere in between 300-400???? I have very little time right now to get on here so I appreciate all of you guys doing the research or just flat out sharing from experience.. Give me the pos/neg everything ... thanks guys! I'd really like to have a whitetail bow that I can pretty much take all the guess work out of the first 30 yards.. possibly out towards 40..
There is always going to be trade-offs. The lighter you make the arrow for gains in speed the more you lose in penetration potential and the more you increase mass for penetration potential the more speed you lose. If I were building an arrow to try and gain speed I would make sure my FOC was 15% or greater. By putting your mass on the front end you help mitigate some loss of penetration potential. I think you could look for something close to what you want at the 30 yard max range but you have to consider that lighter arrows lose speed more quickly than heavier. So, while it may seem like you gain more speed it loses it more quickly, especially when hitting an animal (less mass, less momemtum, less pentration potential) at the longer ranges like 40 yards.
Bows warranties are set at 5 grains of arrow weight per pound of draw weight, so really shooting 70 pounds, you should not shoot an arrow that weighs less than 350 grains. Out of the same bow set up exactly the same spec wise, trimming 50 grains of arrow weight would return an increase of aprox. 17fps. 17fps would hardly change anything as far as the trajectory of your arrow over the numbers I posted earlier.... Maybe 1/2" less drop at 40 yards with a pin zeroed at 30 yards.
Troy, there are a few arrows on the market that will allow you to shoot less than 5grains per pound. I personally have no idea as to how they perform on an animal but they they shoot well for 3D. You know this already, but as your arrow gets lighter, wind drift and alllll those other factors come back into the game.
Troy, In all honesty, even at 350-360fps, a single pin to 40yds is a "pipe-dream" if you want to be accurate enough to kill a whitetail. If we were talking elk or moose or buffalo, I'd say yes, but the trajectory arc is gonna have 6" of variation just going that extra 10 yds, and that's gonna make it really tough. This is why I set a bow up based on it's speed and keep ending up going back to 24, 32, 40 with set-ups varying from 290's to 270's fps, because at that speed range, it seems to be what works best for me. I suppose you could always set up TWO pins, and opt for the longer one as needed, but realistically, you may just be better off getting a single pin adjustable or planning to use multi-pins..... Just my opinion, but I think a 300gr arrow is gonna be a bit light for relatively big deer like you have out your way. If you were in Alabama or Texas it'd be different, but it's not unusual for a deer to run 300# in your region I'd bet, and a 300# deer is gonna present a lot more difficulty getting a pass-through than a 120# Texas or AL deer. I like 420-450 range arrow personally because I think they pack a decent amount of punch while still allowing me to get a little speed. And I'll take 3 pins to get me to 40 if that increase the likelihood of me placing a better, more "ethical," clean killing shot that results in a short blood trail. Plus the LIGHT arrow is gonna make the bow a fair amount LOUDER, and as Bruce said, those light arrow also don't maintain their speed as well. I've seen theoreticals where at 60yds, that heavier arrow meets the speed of the lighter arrow because it's momentum is maintained that much better....again THEORETICALLY. I know that shooting something in the 380gr range vs. 445gr, I see more penetration into my targets, and the bow seems quieter. I think a 330+ IBO set-up even with a 400 grain arrow, you should be able to achieve the ONE pin to 30yds, maybe even stretch it to 35, as long as you know you have to hold at the top of the heart, but getting to 40 is where it really starts dropping off. That arrow is starting on average 4" below line of sight so with a bow we're taking a trajectoric arc, and angling it on the start, to make up for the initial drop-off, but it seems past 35yds, that drop-off gets drastic. With my set-ups, I lose an inch / yard past 40yds..... But even with a faster set-up, you're looking at loosing about 3" between 35-40 yds, when zero'd at 30, so then you're about 6" or maybe a little from 30-40 when zero'd on 30, making it a bit more of a stretch than I'd be willing to take on an animal the size of a whitetail, and likely even mule deer. Again, Elk I think it might be more reasonable, but we're also talking a kill zone that is about DOUBLE the size. Just my $.02.....
Good post Doug! Troy, I have fooled with a lot of setups over 40 years, and what I have settled on that works best for me is a setup that shoots 280fps to 300fps with at least 6 to 7 grains of arrow per pound of draw weight even more is fine I just like my speed in that range. I use a Rear adjustable HHA sight, The Optimizer Ultra with the dial. You can leave it at 25 or where ever works for the individual and adjust as necessary. I always figure if I don't have that 3 to 4 seconds necessary to roll that dial then I shouldn't be taking a long shot anyway. Find what works for you and stick with it as far as sights and setups go then stay with it until it becomes second nature. That is when you will really become effecient. I've shot setups at 400fps and believe me one pin is Not working out to 40 yards. Dan
