There are many small game tips on the market. Blunts, judo points etc. Plus, small game have many more natural predators as they are at the bottom of the food chane. So the need for hunting is less one and they generally don't devistate an area like deer do but I can assure you there have many a rabbit killed out of urban gardens with bb guns. Urban deer are known for overpopulation and eating up vegetation and natural resources in that area and yes, disease is a concern. Ever hear of cwd ? Fenced deer get it more often than wild due to the close proximity of the herd. Generally speaking overpopulated deer herds are less healthy than their "wild" counterparts. Thang goodness my state has the sense to vote in an ammendment to our Constitution that hunting is the preferred method of wildlife population control and not drugs. It's true people prefer hunting large game over small but don't act like it's just a feel good sport. Urban areas pay thousands of dollars for eratication efforts by sharp shooters because the people in urban areas prefer that over normal hunting measures. Due partly to some ignorance on their part and some on the hunters. Just one of the many cases I found on this subject. http://sourland.org/projects/deer-management/
I thought this was going to be a good read but, just a bunch of sally talk and post count buffs. Ive seen a 140+ class deer in the streets of Detroit, maybe I should set a stand on Rosa Parks Dr and Fisher Fwy lol
No thanks. Your strategy in a debate is to say whatever stupidity comes to mind and when someone calls you on it you divert it by throwing out some other stupid non-related crap and challenge the other party to show where you posted bull crap. I could show you where your bull crap is but I'd literally have to go back and pull quotes from every post you put forth in this thread. What I did was offer you a chance to directly argue with my points and you throw out another diversionary tactic and challenge me to go back and show where you were wrong. I'm not playing by "your" rules, if you want to debate the issue you can tell me where I'm wrong in the question posed to you in my post #109. There's no need to go back and revisit all the chaos from the rest of the thread. I placed experience in quotes because your experience of living in a suburb for thirty years literally has no bearing on my point that hunters should hunt suburban areas where allowed to help control the population of deer. That was the original question of the OP "Should we hunt urban areas" (thread title).
I was wrong there is no saving this thread. In regards to hunting for small game safety would be an issue in some areas. Maybe not as much for rabbits but not sure I would feel comfortable lobbing arrows into the air at a squirrel with a house 300 ft away. Pellet guns work great if allowed. In many urban areas there are stipulates that you must be elevated so that you are shooting down towards the ground. But bottom line is if I have the choice to deer hunt or squirrel.rabbit hunt I will choose deer hunting. Why? Because one deer can feed my family for a week but it takes quite a few squirrels to make a meal. Plus I can buy rabbit in the grocery store. Never seen venison, buffalo maybe but not venison.
Big surprise..........asked to substantiate your bogus claims and of course you won't/can't. You say you don't want to play by "my rules" then lay out specifically where you want me start over to avoid all your BS potholes you already stepped in. Good luck. Since you actually addressed something specifically I will gladly answer........it has more bearing then anything else because the reasons you give for your answer are simply not true. At least nowhere near the degree you suspect. You GUESS things are much worse then they really are...........because of your limited information. Drives through town every so often, second hand stories and 10 second spots on the news are fine but hardly tell the whole/real story. I KNOW the reality of the situation as I lived it for over 30 years.........10 of which were DIRECTLY in the deer zone. These deer were overpopulated because of how much land humans converted and it had no chance of ever getting better. I had groups of deer that were as much my pets as they were "wild". I had a front row seat to every aspect of the deer's lives. I got to help "raise" dozens of deer throughout longer lifespans they would ever dream of enjoying in the wild. I helped feed them, made changes to my land to help them get through the snowy winters and watched every year as the next spotted generation would drop ready to roll. I had one buck that was just an amazing thing to be a part of...........watching him grow from a spotted fawn to a BEAST of a buck 6 years later was about as cool as it gets. What I'm trying to get you to understand is these deer were as healthy as any deer you will ever see............no rampant disease, no threats to public health and if anything they had it made. They were much better off then any poor deer with the misfortune of being born on state land (where I hunted most of my young days). Those deer were LUCKY if they lived 2 years and had more poor genetics then not. Palmation was/is rampant in the state lands I hunted growing up. Whether this was due to a nutritional deficiency or more then likely poor breeding with inferior bucks because that's all that lives.......who knows? Either way the truth is that BY FAR the deer that you assume are in peril are actually living the good life few deer are lucky enough to enjoy. Were there deer car accidents?? Sometimes, but no where near a concerning level or more then anywhere else. See, people who don't live there assume the deer will be bouncing off cars left and right but it's just not true. The people who DO LIVE THERE know they are in a densely populated deer area. The local govts reduce the speed limits to 30 mph and the deer rarely if ever go near the large roads because there is nothing on the other side but more trouble. Did I have damage to my landscaping? Yes.........at first. Then a simple choice of deer "resistant" shrubs and a fence around my garden and the problem was solved. I (and almost everyone else in the area) also fed the deer nearly year round. This actually kept the deer off our ornamentals. Some women in the area actually made meals for the deer quite often that were borderline gourmet. In a nutshell........an outsiders point of view when they see the area where I lived all those years would be exactly yours as I've heard it a thousand times. The reality is though that it's just not true. The deer are in no danger from any of the mysterious ailments guys reflexivly spew out when they try to justify hunting in these areas. In fact they are living a better life then any of their distant cousins out there dodging bullets every year. You said you live in the sticks.........no idea how long as you haven't said. What would you tell someone from a big city who was voicing stereotypical cliche opinions about what it's like to live in the sticks that you KNOW from your first hand experience of living there is not true?? I'm sure you wouldn't discount your own experience in that case as irrelevant.
Atlas is back... The professional at arguing points for the sake of arguing... Whether he even believes the points or not. Disappearing for 6 months, then returning for another round.
Those deer seem tame until there is the line that is crossed then they are gone. Case in point I can walk up and down the driveway with the dogs and with the kids when they got off the bus years ago. If you were not looking you would say no deer here nothing to see. If you stopped and went off the driveway the deer would bolt, they have nerves of steel until the trigger point is hit. Big mature bucks in the suburbs or urban interface are as good as avoiding humans as any big woods or pressured buck.
I live next to a couple who think like that. First weekend my buck is back from the taxidermist I am inviting them for dinner.
Emotional attachment, explains it all. Remember, all suburban deer are not your pets. Get over it and yourself.
I didn't step in any BS potholes, you simply had the thread so discombobulated you had yourself confused as to what was even being discussed. I see you at least finally address some semblance of on target discussion in the next part though...finally. I don't guess about things I don't know about. I told you I have family that lived in KC and I stayed with them and hunted with them in the area. I have first hand experience of the area I'm talking about. I already said I defer to your experience for your old area. I went on to say that not all suburban areas have a deer problem but many do. The area I have experience with did and still does. We hunted park land, we weren't stalking around in peoples back yards and dodging swimming pools or something similar. I don't know that anyone here is advocating situations like that. You made pets out of those deer in your area and grew an attachment. It's not uncommon and I struggle with the same thing out here in the country in totally rural country managing deer. Many deer producers will tell the same thing that once you live and work around deer closely that you'll never look at deer hunting the same way...it's understandable but that's also the same mentality that PETA bleeding hearts are driven by. Ultimately they are still wild animals that do cause a lot of problems in suburban environments. No one needs to take my word for it, many here have testified to the problems and one needs look no further than any municipality that has organized hunts to decrease deer populations and their reasoning for doing it to see why I'm right and it's justified. It's not me guessing or imagining a problem...it's people in these areas (with experience living there) that recognize a problem and champion hunting as a means to help control the deer population. I said in an earlier post that they were healthy, due to abundant food in peoples yards, gardens, manicured yards, etc...That's why they overpopulate. Unhealthy deer herds don't overpopulate. The problem is that a population can only grow so far and once critical mass is reached it's a well known fact that a population will collapse due to disease. Just because you have not seen it doesn't make it an non-reality. I don't assume these deer are in peril for the most part, I am pointing towards the municipalities that recognize the overpopulation problems and invite hunters in to fix a problem you claim doesn't exist. If they say it's a problem in their community then I'm not going to buy you basically calling them liars. Deer in these environments grow big because they aren't pressured, for all intents and purposes they basically live in a deer farm environment with plenty of food and water and low pressure to express their full genetic potential. Genetics are mostly overstated, deer health is more important. Given proper environment, most deer have the genetic potential to grow large, strong and overpopulate. Don't take my word for it, my word has nothing to do with it. Look at the municipalities who have recognized these problems with deer overpopulation and tell them they are imagining the problem and not to allow hunting.... Deer don't cross roads...that's a keeper. Great, so...you recognize this as a problem yet basically say deal with it because they are your pets. Not everyone wants to deal with it and many want to be able to have plantings of diversity without fear of a herd of 50 deer attacking it overnight. You're basically saying don't control the overpopulation problem...just feed them so it gets worse...another keeper. I don't care about outsiders opinions. You persist on the false premise when I've plainly laid out for you time and again that I'm not advocating petitioning non hunting municipalities to allow hunting...the question asked was "Should we be hunting urban areas?" To which my stance was yes where it's legal, it needs to be done to help control the population and the problems that come with overpopulation. To which you state is an imaginary problem made up to garner access to exploit big bucks that are tame. To which I say look to the municipalities that organize hunts to fix or try to fix the problems you say are imaginary. Those folks are NOT outsiders. Not that it matters but I grew up and lived on a farm since I was 13 in 1988. It depends on what was being discussed and what was claimed. Regardless, what I have stated was not stereotypical cliche opinions but are verifiable facts testified to by every municipality that organizes urban hunts to control deer overpopulation and every DNR organization that has a hand in organizing those hunts. Those are some pretty weighty sources for you to be calling liars. I don't believe those folks are just making up excuses because they want to chase giant tame bucks that are confined to 20 acres of city parks.... I can't and am not trying to speak for the area you were living in, I already made that clear but your experience there does not give you experience everywhere...that is why it's irrelevant here in this case. There are records all over the country of cities with organizing groups that are using lethal means to control deer overpopulation, info is easy to find all over the web and DNR websites. In most of those cases, they also ignored overpopulation until the problems got so bad they had to take action. That's verifiable testimony that ignoring the problem or claiming it's a non-issue, is an ignorant argument.
I don't get it either, I look back through the thread and mostly what I see are people actually discussing and debating the actual topic of the thread except for the few posts like that one being critical of proper debate that's on topic?
Was this not about suburban hunting and someone's views on it? Yeah Sally talk, debating like little girls. Is this Archerytalk? Why so brutal..
"Should we be hunting urban areas?" That was/is the thread title. You're more than welcome to contribute to the thread rather than whining like a little girl about on topic discussion that's been taking place. A forum thread asking a question is fair game for open debate...it's kinda the point. Brutal???? Obviously you've not actually seen some of the crap on AT.
Exactly what I think every time his name shows up. Somewhere in New York, there is a man sitting at his computer getting a kick out of the fact he has riled up a crowd about deer hunting in the city. Carry on feeding the troll gentlemen.
Trolls got to eat same as the worms... I'm pretty sure Josey Wales would have said that had he experienced the internet.
It's not emotions...............it's having enough brains and common sense to know the difference between deer in the wild and ones I can hand feed corn and tomatoes to in my yard. There is no more sport in "hunting" them as there is walking up and shooting the neighbors dog. The funny part is EVERY guy (who hunted) that I showed pics of those bucks on my phone to would say generally the same thing. "I'd shoot that prick in a second". Again as outsiders you just see a huge racked deer but living there I see him 5-6 days a week hanging around no different then the birds at my feeder. If they need to be killed due to some legit problem then so be it. I'll be glad to eat some of that jerky. Let's just not pretend they need to be "hunted" as some noble gesture of the lords work.
