Should deer drives (gun hunters) be a legal hunting method?

What is so stupid about doing deer drives? My comment wasn't meant as a jab. I have seen you write about what your feeders, etc are for, and I know you do not hunt over them. I am just saying that the comment about driving deer not being hunting, yet, knowing that a deer comes out at 10:30 every morning to visit this certain mineral site, is more hunting than drives? Very different things, yet they could both be considered the easy way out. I honestly haven't seen a single argument presented here against deer drives that is valid. Safety? On average WI has maybe 10 gun injuries out of 650k license sales in a year. I would bet the farm that there are more people killed falling out of treestands during bow season than are killed by stray bullets during gun season. Stress on the deer? Driving has been one of the biggest ways to deer hunt in WI for YEARS. The deer population is still great, as is the amount of record book deer.

 

First, I believe you are making a broad generalization about what you've seen in your local area. I don't think it's fair to categorize every dog club the same. Bow hunters, black powder, gun, deer, duck, squirrel, whatever all have folks that do not abide by the rules. I have a family friend who has land and he's had dozens of people tresspass on his land some of which were bowhunters. Since I know that should I now categorize all bowhunters as trespassers?

Second, in some areas of the country, deer are over populated which leads to crop damage and the spread of disease. I believe in these instances you need a better means of population control rather than just still hunting.

Third, the various states would lose a lot of hunters if you outlawed hunting with dogs. Hunters = dollars which equals funds for the state to maintain public land and protect populations which is very important for those that don't have the money for private hunting land/clubs. Cut out the revenue dollars and people would likely see a reduction in the availability of public land hunting opportunities.

Also, calling dog hunters "slobs" is another large scale generalization. Would you like everyone that deer hunts to take a physical fitness test before they get a license or something?

I like it all, bowhunting, blackpowder, still hunting with a rifle and running dogs. Variety is the spice of life.

 

Running shots on deer causing a high percentage of wounded animals.

 

Sincere question... Is taking a running shot during a drive a normal situation? The drives I've always seen have resulted in shots being taken at standing animals.

 

I put in the sense they elevate the chances of moving shots to be taken. I have never personally been on one, but hunting some public over the years and hearing many a story.....a vast amount of them involved shooting at a moving deer. It's just the nature of the style of hunting that it will "typically" result in moving targets. However, as others have stated a ton of different variations of a "drive" occur everywhere, and some are good some are bad and some are VERY bad.

I'll stress again with each post, my personal opinion or experience with them don't override the fact they are legal and I will stand behind any hunter doing things legally until the masses were to vote the act illegal (is never going to happen).

 

Wrong...just wrong.

 

OK, soo....

It's a legal activity, we are just against the way most shots are taken? What if the rules were changed and it was illegal to take shots at running game?

What about bow hunters taking shots that you feel is too far? What if they haven't tuned their bows for broad heads? What if they haven't even shot their broad heads? My point being, slob hunters are every where. Just because you take away their preferred methods of take does not mean they aren't slob hunters anymore. We can't police everything.

Should they have to pass a "moving target course" prior?

 

So you think it is to ok to take issue what other hunters do, not on your land, even if the activity is legal and traditional?

 

Nope, all boils down to the fact that until it is illegal I won't fight it, I'll defend it in the end. Sure if my state decided to seek a vote from all hunters whether we would like to see it remain legal or not, I would vote not....but that isn't ever going to happen so it will remain legal, I will remain with some valid concerns, but in the end will not fight against it or attempt to bash those that do it because that is what the anti's want.

 

Idk probably the same reason you can't go shoot them at night. Since we're both only talking hunting what regulations are left to change that aren't personal preference.

There's a season
There a bag limit
Certain hours
What weapons that can be used
Where you can hunt
Somewhat baiting, depending on state

I'm sure there a few more obvious answers but what's really left that's essential to why there's laws and hunting in the first place. Probably 95% of its all personal preferences and what a individual deems is the right or wrong way to hunt. I think your getting hung up on the private land part but that's not what I'm saying, I don't believe something should be made illegal just because people don't agree with it. Now I'll haveta reread this thread but the only reasons I've seen is all for personal reasons. For some reason I'm thinking it was you but maybe not someone said something about preventing trespassers, trespassing is already illegal so why make it so the people that are legally something stop because someone feels if driving deer was illegal it will stop trespassing.

 

"Stupid" was in the context of doing it on our properties, just to be clear but I'd say there are many cases of it being stupid in other circumstances also.
From a landowner and management perspective (safety issues aside), I see it as stupid because it pushes too many deer, stinks up the property with too many people and scent from new people that deer aren't comfortable with encountering normally. They don't just drive deer into the intended hunters but drive them into neighboring properties where they are more susceptible danger from hunters and predators. If one is managing a property for herd health and trying to grow mature deer, it is a stupid practice because it's 100% counter productive to the intended goals.

You can't look at my trail cam photos and be at all guaranteed that any of the deer will be at any given point at any given time. They are not 100% random but I don't have any that are reliably pattern-able. Deer drives unnaturally force deer to go a certain direction at a certain time through an unnaturally predictable area. If you can honestly call that hunting then there's nothing more to be said.

Odds are odds and stats are stats, they show a historical record of, or lack, of events. They don't prove anything as far as increased potential for something terrible to happen. You get people pushing deer into hunters, shooting at deer on the run and I'll wager that the odds and stats don't show a "safer" situation than the same numbers of hunters using tree stands. "Valid" is in the eye of the beholder. What's valid to a person against it is going to inherently be invalid to someone who is in favor and practices it.

 

Take issue and bash them or try to go against them I 100% FEEL IS WRONG. To answer what your opinion or concerns are on a topic or practice...I 100% feel that is okay though. Some of us have valid concerns on driving deer, mainly due to our experiences and our regional property make ups....others it is not nearly as much of a factor. Either way you slice it I will always default to if you are hunting legally you are a fellow hunter to me, we got enough division for the anti's to attack we don't need more.

 

Here is Wisconsin it is extremely common. In fact, the rifle range I go to sight in at has a running deer target you can pay extra for to shoot at and practice.




Edit:

I went and found the on-line flyer advertising the running deer target.

http://www.wbbsc.com/14siflr.pdf

 

I enjoy gun hunting but I do not drive deer. I think there is a much bigger percentage of a holes that drive deer than any other hunting method. I would guess that almost everyone here that has dealt with people who drive deer had some type of run in with them. I also believe they are the biggest percentage of trespassers hunting. I have seen plenty that have drove property to property knowing they can get through before they get in trouble.

 

Lol, everything is illegal because someone or a great many someone's didn't agree with it. Either on a safety basis or from a conservation or a moral basis.

I think the trespassing part was probably me but that version is so convoluted I can't be sure. What I said was that drives being legal, in many cases encourages people to conduct drives on property they are also trespassing on to do it. It does so just based on the addicting nature of the ease and success rate. A group of drivers with questionable character to start with are going to have an easier time talking themselves into a "quick" walk across normally inaccessible private property when they are used to doing so legally on a nearby property/properties. I've been in the middle of these types of discussions in years past among friends in school. Had driving been already illegal, the issue would not have likely even come to discussion. Yes trespassing is already illegal but as I said, the quick and easy success of legal drives can act as a very strong catalyst for pushing the proverbial illegal envelope. Trespass driving isn't quite as risky as stand hunting while illegally trespassing because the event is over rather quickly and the trespasser (driver) has no need to carry a weapon...the shooters are generally positioned off property where they aren't trespassing.

 

That's crazy! Thanks for the link brad.

 

We have a camp of about 15 that primarily uses deer driving as our means of hunting. We sit in stands until about 10:00 am then spend the rest of the day doing drives.

As someone who participated in literally hundreds of drives, there are certain criteria I've learned that must be in place for it to be successful. First, you have to know and trust every single member of your party that they are going to know when it's safe to shoot, and know when it's not safe. Next, everyone has to know the area that they are driving. This is particularly important when the walkers are getting close to where the standers are located. Lastly, good communication - everyone who is walking should be making a lot of noise is to let the Standers know where they are at all times.

Safety is always the biggest concern when doing deer drives, as long as people use common sense then there never should be any issues.


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It certainly does increase chances of taking shot at moving deer. While it may not be everytime it is often. There are people that hunt with dogs that take low percentage shots just like there are those that do so with a bow. Like has been stated, hunter need to support the sport and all that comes with it. If it is supporting baiting a bear in, killing quail that is bought for a hunt, or coyotes at night, its hunting sime will disagree.


I love hunting over dogs. Yall wont change that becuase it is extremely exciting when the dogs are in chase. Honestly im not sure if i could choose between that or bowhunting( but a deer taking with a bow will always mean more than an equivilant animal taken with gun)

 

Let me explain how a typical day of hunting goes for deer drivers.

They have a group of 20 guys meet up at Joe's house at say 9am (hungover). They drive to the first 4 acre wood lot they get permission to. Post every available exit route with orange everywhere. Then a few guys push every inch of the woods. Doe fawn comes running out. Bam Bam Bam Bam bla bla bla bam bam Kapow Kapow Kapow Bam Bam Bam. "Its down!". "Did you hit it Al?" "Yeah I think so Greg". Yeah I think I hit it too". "How many holes you got Jerry?". "6 holes Joe". "Bob, do you want to tag it"? "Sure".

They then get back in their trucks and drive to the next grassy field 4 miles away and do it all over again. They are easy to identify because they always wear their blaze orange in the bar because they don't care at all about scent.

 

Maybe typical for Wisconsin

I've never been involved in a drive with more than 4 people. I've also never seen people drinking beer while hunting. Ever.