Should Crossbows be Allowed During Archery Season?

Finally We have gotten somewhere's we are now at the denial stage, this will probably be the end of the line for me as this is going to just become a endurance race of who can say "I am right" longer.

Sure this is quite simple so you will want to be careful in how much you encourage me when it so easy for me to do. I will cock and load my grandfather's crossbow for him on occasion since he cannot. - Innovative Outdoorsman

This is irrelevant

After doing so, I will hand it to him. He will at times leave it cocked for days during the season. -Innovative Outdoorsman

also irrelevant.

The end user applied no human effort. He carries with him a stored energy he did not cock it and applied no human effort in order to kill with it. - Innovative Outdoorsman

Now we finally get to the important part, the great advantage of a crossbow is, once you have applied enough energy to the cams/limbs by cocking it back, whether by hand, or with a cocking string or a wench, all of that energy is stored in the limbs (or cams if it is a compound crossbow) and held by a trigger mechanism. This is a huge mechanical advantage!

the next best thing is found in a compound bow, which once again, when the user draws back, energy is stored in the cams, at a certain point in the draw, the cams roll back and by doing so a great amount of that weight, is alleviated on the user, allowing him to have as much as 85% of total weight let off, this allows him to draw and hold his bow back with only 15% of the strain on him. This gives him the ability to hold his bow steady for minutes at a time. as opposed to a traditional bow, which has no mechanical aid.

Now we both agree that even though the crossbow has a greater mechanical advantage over the compound, it is still a bow.

The only part in which you are incorrect is your second half of this statement. and applied no human effort in order to kill with it

This is incorrect, he took full advantage of the mechanical benefit that the crossbow offers and when he kills something with it, he has to release that stored energy, just as you or I release stored energy when we shoot a compound, only this is even better then let off, you only need to pull a trigger.


Another example to easily dispel your error in assumption is the parker concorde self cocking crossbow that use CO2 to both cock and decock the crossbow. In this example a device (mechanism) cocks and decocks the crossbow instead of the user. -Innovative Outdoorsman

This does not dispel any error my friend, you have found an even greater mechanical advantage, one that does not require you to rely on your own strength to pull back the crossbow cable, this is similar to a wench but even cooler and easier then that!
But it does not detract from the fact that it is a bow.


I also drew a compond and recurve and handed it to him for later use but each time, the bow reverted to its relaxed state since the tool is human powered and without human effort is useless. -Innovative Outdoorsman

A very astute observation! You witnessed stored energy being converted into kinetic energy, When you attempted to pass a drawn compound and recurve bow to your grandfather(Something that is in my opinion very foolish) He was not able to maintain the energy that was stored into that bow. Energy Is always looking to be released, when a rubber band is pulled back, that energy stored in the band wants to shoot back to its original state, when the wood from your recurve was flexed back, it wished to shoot forward into its normal position.
Your grandfather was not able to contain the energy stored into the limbs. However If you would have let him tried to draw it on his own, you would probably notice that he would be able to draw it back a little bit. Some energy was stored in the bow, but not enough to be considered effective. But once he was given a bow with the mechanical advantage of a crossbow, especially one with a CO2 powered cocking system, he would be able to use the energy to kill a deer

I do not see how you disproved anything, you are only on the same page as I now. A crossbow is a bow with certain mechanical advantages over other bows.

Thank you for the opportunity to so easily answer your impossible assignment. Doing the impossible is always a treat for me each time I do it. -Innovative Outdoorsman

You have answered the question, you just didnt make a point different to mine, we are now on the same page



See above. I very neatly wraped a nice ribbon around it for you. -Innovative Outdoorsman

I am sorry to say that I do not see how this was answered, you still unfortunately continue to believe that the difference between crossbows and other bows is that crossbows store energy and regular bows use human power, you are wrong, they both store energy, the difference is in how one keeps that energy from being released.



As it relates to bow and arrows and crossbows. See above. Likewise see my prior posting. If I already posted it and you failed to understand, reposting it wont help you gain a complete understanding. -Innovative Outdoorsman

I don't think you studied for the exam, because you continue to argue that bows are human powered wheras crossbows are not. Go back and watch the video.



Here you once again made an error of assumption. At no time did I say a crossbow is not a bow. You incorrectly assumed (invented) that. A crossbow is a type of bow (re. it’s a crossbow) Its users are crossbowers. My assertion from day one is that crossbow users are crossbowers and the users of a human powered bow and arrow are bowhunters. -Innovative Outdoorsman

Now we get to the part we will not agree on, I will provide for you a statement, you may not like it, but it is the truth. If a crossbow is indeed a bow. and a hunter uses said bow to hunt, he is a bowhunter, he may be a crossbowhunter or a crossbower, but do not mistake that to mean he is not a bowhunter.

Now before you jump on this statement and disagree, listen to what I am saying.

The definiton of bowhunting according to the oxford dictionary is

• The practice of hunting animals with a bow rather than a gun.

If you use a bow to hunt, you are a bowhunter
A person who uses a longbow/recurve is considered a traditionalist, or a traditional bowhunter
A person that uses a compound bow is a compound bowhunter, or a non traditionalist. But they are indeed a bowhunter, as they hunt with a bow.
A person that hunts with a crossbow is YES considered a crossbower or a crossbow hunter, this group often has to deal with restrictions that the others do not share because of the greater mechanical advantages it has over the other bows.
But...... Since they do use a BOW, they are a bowhunter.
How can someone use a bow to hunt and not be a bowhunter?

This is as black and white as it gets, we both agree that crossbows are bows, we both believe that said users are Crossbowers or crossbow hunters.

you can now choose to decide if you believe someone using this bow is indeed a bowhunter. In the end though it doesn't really matter what you believe, as it is beyond dispute that a crossbow is a bow and its user is a bowhunter.


Edit: Bonus assignment, the method used to draw a bow back is not important, the way that the projectile is sent flying is important. Using a Co2 powered cocking device is the same as using a wench, both give the crossbow enough energy to effectively launch an arrow(in modern crossbows atleast) in the same matter as a compound bow, By releasing the energy stored in the cams. Now if that Crossbow shot a projectile by using Co2, then it would not be a bow, but an airgun.
Don't get caught up in this though, as the real debate is in the paragraph above.

 

It isn't a matter of which one is bigger and better, he is calling mine fake

 

The rest of your reply was prattle that isn't worthy of reply as its silly and redundant and incorrect but this part was so wrong on its face it begs to be called out. The means of drawing AND HOLDING (I see you left that off as it even further weakens your already weak argument) a bow is what defines it as a crossbow.

The crossbow (as shown in the video) can be cocked via a mechanical device powered by CO2 ad then held in place by the device . Its users cannot be bowhunters.

the bowhunter uses human power and a draw cycle in the presence of game to kill. The crossbower, not so much and is why the crossbower is not a bowhunter (a term coined by Roy case in the 1930's than is not subject to revision)

Thank you again for the opportunity to further educate you on this. I think we are getting closer to your graduation date.

In the recent past we have seen an entitled lot that are living in denial . We have seen men that want to self-identify as women, White people that want to self-identify as black or native American. This is called living in a pretend world . We are seeing civilians don the uniform posing as military vets in an attempt to deceive so when I see crossbowers that want to self-identify and pose as bowhunters, I speak up because its so easy to refute using facts that they are frauds trying to falsely assume the identity of another group.

In the grand scheme of things its not really that big of a deal and they really only make themselves look foolish but we ought to have principles and it is the off-season and there is an entertainment component to having a front row seat to human dynamics watching people try to defend the indefensible and their reactions when they are repeatedly exposed. Rather than admitting they are wrong once exposed, some get really defensive. Then the entertainment level increases.

self-i·den·ti·fy

(sĕlf′ī-dĕn′tə-fī′)

intr.v. self-i·den·ti·fied, self-i·den·ti·fy·ing, self-i·den·ti·fies

To believe or assert that one belongs to a certain group or class even if you do not. It only requires that the person wants to believe; (re. delusional)

 

Neither look real. Both look fake. (even if human powered)

 

Here is a very quick and easy way for you to finally admit and ultimately accept defeat (something you should have done long ago that could have saved you lots of typing for nothing.)

Go to a state where crossbows are not legal to hunt with under the archery or bowhunting license (there are plenty to choose from) This is additional proof that crossbowers are not known as bowhunters since if they were, states like this would not exist.

Hunt with your crossbow there. When the warden cites you, argue vigorously (only try to do better than you have here) prattle on about tangents as you have shown a talent for and demand you are a bowhunter. Really press the point and get up in his grill. Tell him all the funny stuff you posted here. Don't back down. You are after all certain you are a bowhunter world wide by definition using a bow to hunt with. He will educate you on the matter as I have done here but like here, don't accept fact and logic and reason, use your emotional rants. Wardens love that. Sharp jabs with an index finger in his chest will drive your point home.

Then on your court date, repeat all that to the judge. Tell him you demand to be recognized as a bowhunter world wide because you use a bow and that you insist the term bowhunter be applied globally since you use a bow. Tell him the statutes and administrative code are wrong and you are right. Don't back down. Be insulting even though you are wrong (just like you are doing here) Judges love that.

The warden and the judge will tell you what I have been educating you about. The crossbow is held at full draw (stored energy) requiring no effort on the part of the user to hold that power back. Like this happy fellow is doing.

This means you are not a bowhunter universally around the globe or even in the USA. You are a crossbower that in some states is granted the ability to crossbow hunt along side bowhunters.

Make sure to bring your check book.

I would invite you to spare yourself further indignity and embarrassment but you have entertained me thus far so I encourage you to continue on here.

 

what happens when that auto cocking gun ran out of juice half drawn back? that would be hilarious when a monster buck is staring at him. oh my god! van helsings auto loading crossgun will be next!

I believe this crossgun thing is a fad that will disappear over time. a true hunter still has to get off his a@# and put the time in and know what to do to get his game. that is where the trad and vertical guys prevail. I'm sure there are a small group of crossgunners that do but overall they are lazy from what I've seen.

 

IO.... http://www.lockadraw.com/. What say ye?


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That is a vertical crossbow. Its held at full draw by a means other than the strength of the user. It can be pre-loaded hours in advance of the shot and locked in a fixed position. WI and others states long ago addressed the draw lock and deemed them crossbows.

 

All I know is that there was once a jackass here that was intolerant about the very same issue, the maladjusted individual would rant and rave and be very unaccepting of others perspective on crossbows and food plots, called it cheating and baiting. Very pompous and condescending as well as dismissive of another perspective other than their own.

Justice was served on many levels over time, banned from many bowhunting forums and caught doing the very same thing that was considered a step over the ethics and fair chase line and used the Nugent like line I was innocent of the charges pressed but did not have the alleged time energy $ to fight it. Ever wonder where the hate for a certain WI outdoor writer comes from? Just do a search on the baiting story and read it, the article was written with payback for a reason, there is animosity there well earned.

I could do a word association exercise and based on the response and a search of the forum history with the key words used in the response and search we would find matches and while the finger prints might not be an exact match the DNA would be. Lie detector and truth serum applied Some of Inovative outdoorsman's responses are from the banned party.

 

Consistently never on topic and unable to enter the arena of ideas due to his limited horizons so he cowars in the shadows unable to participate then runs out, throws stones from the sidelines (then runs and cowars again in his safe space) unable to engage on any level of substance. Personal attacks to compensate for lack of ability to discuss the subject matter. You are consistent.

I feel bad for you.

 

Whisker Biscuit.

 

It is as I figured, you totally ignored every argument that you did not like and focused one sentence on a topic we have not covered yet, will you not address this? I will post it again.

Definition of a bowhunting according to the Oxford Dictionary

• The practice of hunting animals with a bow rather than a gun.

If you use a bow to hunt, you are a bowhunter
A person who uses a longbow/recurve is considered a traditionalist, or a traditional bowhunter
A person that uses a compound bow is a compound bowhunter, or a non traditionalist. But they are indeed a bowhunter, as they hunt with a bow.
A person that hunts with a crossbow is YES considered a crossbower or a crossbow hunter, this group often has to deal with restrictions that the others do not share because of the greater mechanical advantages it has over the other bows.
But...... Since they do use a BOW, they are a bowhunter.
How can someone use a bow to hunt and not be a bowhunter?

This is as black and white as it gets, we both agree that crossbows are bows, we both believe that said users are Crossbowers or crossbow hunters.

you can now choose to decide if you believe someone using this bow is indeed a bowhunter. In the end though it doesn't really matter what you believe, as it is beyond dispute that a crossbow is a bow and its user is a bowhunter.

You have repeatedly admitted that a crossbow is a bow, and sidestepped every fact that I posted, whether it be on informing you that both types of bows use stored energy, not just crossbows, or the facts I listed above, and rather then provide any argument to what I have to say, you say "that is silly" decided to focus on this one statement. the method used to draw a bow back is not important, the way that the projectile is sent flying is important.

As I said before you are now in the denial stage, you will just say I am wrong with out any evidence to back yourself up, or blatantly ignore them and spew nonsensical stuff that has no bearing on the debate such as this

Thank you again for the opportunity to further educate you on this. I think we are getting closer to your graduation date.

In the recent past we have seen an entitled lot that are living in denial . We have seen men that want to self-identify as women, White people that want to self-identify as black or native American. This is called living in a pretend world . We are seeing civilians don the uniform posing as military vets in an attempt to deceive so when I see crossbowers that want to self-identify and pose as bowhunters, I speak up because its so easy to refute using facts that they are frauds trying to falsely assume the identity of another group. -Innovative Outdoorsman

As I said before, if you will ignore my arguments and deny what I am saying without anything of substance to back it up then I will have to bow out of the ring. And I will address your other post in a seperate response, but I do not want dwell in the land of hypothetical for very long, let us stick in the realm of facts, Please do not continue to drag us there.


Now to deal with the argument you did make
The means of drawing AND HOLDING (I see you left that off as it even further weakens your already weak argument) a bow is what defines it as a crossbow. -Innovative Outdoorsman

I will quickly deal with the parenthesis, while I did not specifically use the word HOLDING after the word drawing, it was implied. I did not include it because the holding part is in my opinion irrelevant. With a traditional bow, your arm is the only thing in the way of keeping the energy stored in the limbs from being released. As we all know flesh is frail and weak. You can only keep that energy held back for so long until your arm fails and that stored energy (same energy in a crossbow) is released. The trigger mechanism in a crossbow works the same way, except unlike flesh it can keep that energy from being released for months, Maybe even years(It will break down eventually and whether it is due to cable failure from the stress or whatever,) the energy that has been stored will be released.

This is part of the reason why crossbows have different regulations as opposed to more traditional bows. It gives the user a great mechanical advantage and therefore needs to be regulated differently, just as muzzleloader seasons are regulated differently than the centerfire rifle season. Even though they are both firearms, one group has a great mechanical advantage over the other and thus must be regulated differently. That does not mean my bolt action rifle is "not a real gun" or me "not a real rifle hunter"

All of that to say, the holding part is irrelevant, as a trigger mechanism does not magically make the bow that is storing the energy something other than a bow. As we have already agreed upon, a crossbow is still a bow.

This next part I don't understand , do you mean that what holds the cable in place is what makes the difference between a crossbow and a bow? That last line (without the parentheses) doesn't make any sense. The means of drawing AND HOLDING a bow is what defines it as a crossbow.


If you mean the difference between a crossbow and a regular bow is that one holds the string back with a trigger mechanism, while the other is usually held back by the human arm, then you are correct, that is one of the characteristics of a crossbow. But for the billionth time that does not negate the fact that a crossbow is a bow. You have no argument, you have only pointed out an obvious difference in design between two bows. You have already admitted a crossbow is a bow, what is your point?

As for the Co2 part, the same argument applies, what draws the bow back does not magically turn it into something other than it is not, whether a bow gains energy by you pulling and holding the bow back, or CO2 moving the cable back until it catches in the trigger mechanism, does not make it something other than a bow, it just fits in a different sub category, the "autoloading crossbow" They have been around for thousands of years check out the repeating crossbow, it is a very similar concept. But at the end of the day it is still a "bow" It may be some frankenstined monster from a traditional purists Nightmares. But it is still a bow.

again please, let us not delve into all the weird sub types of crossbows and debate if "they are real bows or not" because that is not the issue. (I know, you never said it wasn't a bow, you only pointed out the difference between it and a traditional bow, or compound, But I am going somewhere) If you could reply substantively to one thing I have said please answer the question below


Question for you, read the quote in italics above that are from my previous post that you ignored and answer the question, if a crossbow is indeed a bow, (as you have stated) and its user is hunting with said bow, does logic not dictate that the said person is a bowhunter? Read the definition of bowhunter that I have provided and come back to me. And try to lose the fluff about men pretending to be women and whatnot, that has no bearing on the discussion.


I do hope you come back with substance this time, if not than as I have said, it is the end of the line for me.

 

Durkin

 

Copy/paste directly from the Oxford website:

Oxford Dictionaries is part of Oxford University Press (OUP), a department of the University of Oxford.

So, a couple things...
Number one: this is America, Jack!
I will not allow a group of British scholars to define the differences between American cross-gunners and bowhunters, when they can't even get football right!
But hey, at least we're learning who the posers are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Alright Here is the fun one, because I am going to quote something from someone who was very wise... Well in their own eyes atleast here it is Fishing?? It would appear you have used every arrow in your quiver of ideas and are desperately grasping to make a point of relevance.

Man this guy really knew how to call it, maybe because he was used to running out of valid arguments, idk anyways now I am off topic (Look where you have taken me).

Let us get back to ironing this one right out PATRICK! * Donnal and Connal Joke inserted

Go to a state where crossbows are not legal to hunt with under the archery or bowhunting license (there are plenty to choose from) This is additional proof that crossbowers are not known as bowhunters since if they were, states like this would not exist. -Innovative Outdoorsman

As stated before legality has nothing to do with the determining whether or not you are a bowhunter, fitting the description of a bowhunter does. Read the definition of a bowhunter, I have posted it twice now.

Here are some FACTS

FACT #1 It is Illegal to hunt in certain states with a semi auto rifle, let us use PA for an example, you cannot legally go hunt deer with a semi auto rifle. Period.

Fact #2 Just because it is illegal does not mean I cannot go deer hunting with my ar-15, it just means that I would be hunting illegally. the illegality of the issue does not make me any less of a rifle hunter, it may also make me a poacher, an unethical hunter, an unsportsman like hunter, a criminal and a dirtbag. But that does not detract from the fact that I am hunting with a rifle and therefore a rifle hunter.

Fact #3 If I am hunting with a bow(whether it is a crossbow, a compound or a freaking mongolian horse bow) and I am doing so in a manner that is illegal, (such as insuffecient draw weight, or out of season etc) then I am hunting illegally. This however does not mean that I am not bowhunting!


Hunt with your crossbow there. When the warden cites you, argue vigorously (only try to do better than you have here) prattle on about tangents as you have shown a talent for and demand you are a bowhunter. Really press the point and get up in his grill. Tell him all the funny stuff you posted here. Don't back down. You are after all certain you are a bowhunter world wide by definition using a bow to hunt with. He will educate you on the matter as I have done here but like here, don't accept fact and logic and reason, use your emotional rants. Wardens love that. Sharp jabs with an index finger in his chest will drive your point home. -Innovative Outdoorsman

I don't see what "being a bowhunter" has to do with hunting illegally, sure I might be a bowhunter(someone who is using a bow, and you have said after all that a crossbow is a bow), but I am not operating within my states laws (If they do not allow crossbows during the archery season, then fine. I have no problem with this. They probably have a very good reason for doing so. Just like they keep Center fire rifles out of the flintlock season, even though centerfires are real rifles and their users real gun hunters.) What is your point?

Then on your court date, repeat all that to the judge. Tell him you demand to be recognized as a bowhunter world wide because you use a bow and that you insist the term bowhunter be applied globally since you use a bow. Tell him the statutes and administrative code are wrong and you are right. Don't back down. Be insulting even though you are wrong (just like you are doing here) Judges love that. -Innovative Outdoorsman

Why would I insult the judge when I am operating illegally under the laws the state has provided. I used a bow in an illegal manner and am therefore and illegal bowhunter, I would be better off pleading guilty and receiving the smallest punishment possible for my crime.

The warden and the judge will tell you what I have been educating you about. The crossbow is held at full draw (stored energy) requiring no effort on the part of the user to hold that power back. Like this happy fellow is doing. -Innovative Outdoorsman

I am quite sure my good sir that the judge would not go into the difference between two different bow designs, as that is irrelevant. The type of bow will probably not affect the outcome of the decision. Unless there is a more severe punishment for using this type of bow in said state. Yet even then I fail to see why the judge would bring this up. I know how a crossbow works, I just used it to commit a crime!
The way the bow works does not define whether he is a bowhunter or not, only what type of bowhunter he is, if I am a crossbow user; which in this hypothetical case I am then I am a crossbower, if I used a recurve then I am a traditional bowhunter, but both people are still bowhunters.
(the traditional guy is just more hardcore!)

This means you are not a bowhunter universally around the globe or even in the USA. You are a crossbower that in some states is granted the ability to crossbow hunt along side bowhunters.

Make sure to bring your check book.

I would invite you to spare yourself further indignity and embarrassment but you have entertained me thus far so I encourage you to continue on -Innovative Outdoorsman

You are summing up an incorrect statement based upon reasons that I have already touched upon. So I will not repeat myself. Except to say this, just because a crossbow is not allowed in certain states or countries, does not mean it is not a bow. You yourself have stated its a bow, and if it is a bow and it is used by someone to hunt, then they are bowhunting. Legality notwithstanding.

just as an m-16 is a rifle, even though it is not allowed to be used in the regular rifle seasons of certain countries. Hunting with it illegally does not make it any less of a rifle or its user a rifle hunter

Now I wish you would leave this kind of arguing out of the thread, it is illogical and not really relevant. Please stick to my last post. Buts since I fear you wont this is probably the last thing I will have said to you, It has been fun but good night and good bye!

Most sincerely, Axtell

 

Would you like an American Definition? lol But you are right, soccer players are not real football players. Whats your favorite team? Mine is the Pittsburgh Steelers and judging from your username, we will probably not approve of each others teams lol.

Oh and yes I know, although its been this way for a while

 

Luckily for me, I spent part of my youth in CO and found a lifelong attachment to the Broncos! Lol.. but I did go against the grain of natural sports-rivalry last night, and rooted for the Pens... that damn game kept me up way past my bedtime. It pains me to root for them, but I gotta support the strongest division in the league!!


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Axtell343................Oxford dictionary?????? Seriously???


As I closed my prior post, I encouraged you to continue since you are entertaining me despite the fact they you are failing at every aspect of this exchange. Thank you for following my instructions and for entertaining me.

In lieu of substance and salient points, you have instead decided that making really long and rambling points is a viable substitute. It is not. (but its entertaining so again I encourage you to continue.)

Is there another among your side of this matter that can actually do this justice that is not living in a fantasy world that can provide an exchange on par with my contributions? While entertaining, I feel I am wasting my time since you don’t have the capacity to do this justice.

We agree, a bowhunter is a bowhunter and a crossbow hunter is a crossbow hunters and the two are not at all the same. In some states, crossbow hunting is allowed along side bowhunting meaning crossbowing is allowed while bowhunting is taking place. The crossbower is not a bowhunter. The term and definition of "Bowhunter" coined by Roy Case in the 1930's is not up for debate and not subject to revision. Crossbowers can create a definition for what it is they do.


My succinct description of what will happen to you if you attempt to crossbow hunt in a state where crossbow hunting is illegal, cleanly settled the matter. You held your breath and stomped your feet and went for Oxford. Surely there is one among you worthy of the education Im providing. Go see if you can find that person and bring them back here.

If you want a valid definition of bowhunting. Look here. (then you can use mental gymnastics to claim state laws do not apply.)

https://pope-young.org/bowhunting/equipment.asp

And

" the crossbow is not a bow and a member of the Professional Bowhunters Society® will not use a crossbow, or any device that holds a bow at full or partial draw, during archery seasons."

http://bowsite.com/pbs/ethics.pdf

Look to page 3. Bow: Any bow, drawn and held by and through the effort of the person releasing it, but it does not include crossbow.

http://dnr.wi.gov/files/PDF/pubs/wm/WM0431.pdf

Here is another.

Archery equipment: a long bow, recurve bow, or compound bow incapable of holding an arrow at full or partial draw without aid from the archer.

Crossbow: means a bow capable of holding an arrow at full or partial draw without human aid.

http://fw.ky.gov/Hunt/Pages/Hunting-and-Trapping-Definitions.aspx

For the purposes of bowhunting and crossbow hunting, you will want to look to the state you are hunting for the definitions that matter (or tell the judge at your trail that Oxford is the be-all and end-all) Bring your check book.

Lastly, I had high hopes that you were up to this task. Sadly you were not and proved to be a disappointment. This does not mean I want you to stop trying. As I stated, there is an entertainment component in your attempts so please continue. In the meantime, try to locate somebody from your side that is actually up to the task.

I very rarely give up on a person but you have demonstrated that you do not possess the capacity for this exchane. Given time, I think you may but currently you do not.

 

The only reason i think it should be legal are for the people that physically cant shoot a bow, everyone deserves to launch razor blades at something.