Shot Placement Discussion

Discussion in 'Bowhunt or Die® - Web Show' started by kb1785, Dec 12, 2015.

  1. kb1785

    kb1785 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Watched the new show last night (12/11/15) and I must compliment you guys yet again on being real when discussing shot placement, shot selection and the recovery process that ensues. Many shows tend to gloss over bad or questionable shots and just show final recovery but you guys have always been very honest in your post-mortem analysis. Very glad you found your deer Justin (awesome deer by the way) and thanks for being frank with you self assessment. I have been there myself and as a bowhunter know exactly the roller coaster of emotions as you go through that. Great show as usual. Keep up the good work.
     
  2. ruteger

    ruteger Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I think this week's episode was probably my least favorite BHOD episode that I've ever watched and I really enjoy the show a lot and watch it religiously. To put into perspective how horrible a shot Justin took, 1) Justin had been seeing great deer almost every time he was in his stand but they just weren't getting close enough for a good shot, 2) Justin already has 2 great bucks under his belt this season, and 3) it was still early November with plenty of the season left.

    Justin is one of the guys on the show that a lot of people (including a lot of young, up-and-coming hunters) look up to A LOT. I know you guys try to keep it real by showing everything, but you didn't do anyone any favors by showing Justin's shot/kill. It's one thing to show an acceptable shot (or at least a close to acceptable shot) that goes bad for whatever reason, but it's another thing to show a completely unacceptable shot that goes wrong because it was a completely unacceptable shot for anyone to take, let alone someone who is a veteran hunter and role model for other bowhunters.

    I know and completely understand that these shots happen for whatever reason, adrenaline or a lapse in good judgment, and I'm definitely not claiming to be some perfect hunter here on the soapbox, but I really disagree with this hunt being aired because it's going to influence someone negatively since Justin did end up recovering a great deer. We always need to remember that Risk vs Reward is something that really plays a huge part in a lot of hunter's minds, and showing this unacceptable risk being rewarded with a great deer is not a good influence on someone's future decision making.

    I still think Justin is a great guy and a great hunter. I just think this hunt should have been left for a story on the forum rather than making it to an episode and using a hero photo of the hunt as a thumbnail for this week's episode.

    Here's a link to the shot in case anyone hasn't seen it and is reading this:
    https://youtu.be/1uKicQyjsU0?t=17m24s
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
  3. Justin

    Justin Administrator

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    For what it's worth I think there's a big difference between the shot I took and a shot that is "completely unacceptable". If that arrow is a few inches further back, which is where I wanted it, that deer is dead within 100 yards. No, it's not the highest percentage shot in the world however it's far from being something so terrible that I wouldn't air it on the show. It's not like I shot the thing on the run through a bunch of brush at 80 yards. We're talking about a deer that's at 12 yards and with a well placed arrow is dead in short order.

    Sorry you feel so strongly about it.
     
  4. jasond02

    jasond02 Newb

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    I'm not siding with either side here I just thought I would bring up that the camera's angle (what we see) of the deer wasn't exactly Justin's angle of the deer. Just something to consider.
     
  5. ruteger

    ruteger Die Hard Bowhunter

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    We'll agree to disagree. I still enjoy the show a lot. Thanks.
     
  6. dnoodles

    dnoodles Grizzled Veteran

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    Actually, I sympathize with JZ and felt his after shot self critique was more than adequate. Bowhunting is a sport of inches and the buck was less than 15 yards away. I know how confident I am with my equipment and skill and that's a shot that I would be very, very tempted to take on a stationary animal at that range. But I've also passed on it once and know how hard it was to not pull the trigger.

    Rector's on the other hand...2nd appearance in a row with a bad shot on an animal literally walking away and no real reason for it. I hate to bag on the guy again but there was just no justification to take that shot. Not even a "the horn temptation was just to hard to resist" rationale. The deer clearly took that angling away step well prior to the release. Rector seemed awfully ho-hum about it; but maybe he's just a low key guy and doesn't get all emotional about stuff like that. But Todd and JZ also kind of glossed over it- sorry, but he did not end up "making a pretty good shot" - he took a terrible shot that ended up with good results. There's no sugar coating it- he got lucky.

    I've shot deer in the exact same spot and also had little or no blood to follow. The fact he was able to recover the animal after a short run is beside the point. It's why a hard quarter away angle is just as bad as a quartering to; and we shouldn't take either on a moving animal. There is literally no room for error.

    I dunno...we're all human. I've lost deer (lost what would have been my best ever this year) and have taken a few questionable shots over the years. I really like the show, and appreciate the good with the bad. But homeboy needs to get his stuff together. There's a big difference between making a bad shot and taking a bad shot. Once is an aberration...twice is a coincidence...three times is a trend. I hope this isn't a trend.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
  7. CoveyMaster

    CoveyMaster Grizzled Veteran

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    I hate to be too rough on someone I have so much respect for but I have to completely agree with Ruteger. Based on what I can see from the cameras POV (also JZ's post shot commentary) that is an absolutely awful choice of shot. I'm glad it turned out well and congratulations on the buck but I can't honestly say I'm proud to see you guys taking iffy chances like that. It was nearly a spine shot and I find those one of the most awful intentionally taken (or risked) shots out there.

    I hadn't watched all of the episode yet, I applaud the effort made in tracking that deer down and I also applaud owning up to the fact that the shot shouldn't have been taken. As far as not showing it on the episode, I have mixed feelings on that point. On one hand I hate to see it but on the other it could also serve as a very very good lesson why no matter what the chip shot circumstances appear to be, a low percentage shot is always too risky to chance.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
  8. tynimiller

    tynimiller Legendary Woodsman

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    In my opinion the shot cannot be defended nor encouraged to be taken. Just my boiled down opinion. I still watch the show and enjoy a lot of it and JZ's willingness to be real and honest is one of the reasons.
     
  9. remmett70

    remmett70 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Haven't watched the episode yet so I am not commenting on Justin's specific shot. But IMO shows should show bad shots, as long as they are portrayed as a bad shot and use the opportunity to teach why they were bad shots and what to do after those bad shots. I think showing bad hunts and results if used correctly can be not only entertaining as well but even more educational.
     
  10. trial153

    trial153 Grizzled Veteran

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    Watched it today while slacking at work...

    JZ shot was an obvious pass, he knows it and said it. **** happens.

    The other guys shot on the doe ..call me crazy but it wasn't as bad as it looked. Yes the guy needed the deer to take a step into the quarter for a slightly better angle....however quartering away shots even hard ones are really deadly...you drive a broad head through the diaphragm and you have a dead deer period.
     
  11. Sota

    Sota Legendary Woodsman

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    So then how do you video that? Go out with the intention of taking any shot? It wasn't a bad shot it was educational.:evilgrin:
     
  12. frantic29

    frantic29 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    IMO Justin's shot was an easy do not take. Which he even said as much afterward. Anytime you can say the deer was facing straight away that a bad shot. But I get it to an extent. He's on a roll feeling a little better than maybe he should a takes a marginal shot. It happens, he said as much, move on. Last shot I don't like that just because you are going to have to get in the guts to make it happen. Not really a marginal shot just not ideal.
     
  13. muzzyman88

    muzzyman88 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I personally didn't like the shot choice and wouldn't take it, but to each their own. Its easy to say that sitting here on the couch. I wasn't in the tree. I believe Justin and the whole BHOD crew is as solid of a group as you'll find. What I really like and admire about these guys is the simple fact that they will own up to a mistake, marginal shot because of a bad choice, etc. They'll also take you on the adventure of recovering said deer. Not many shows, if any, shows you everything like they do. I don't feel like they're hiding the fact that it was a bad shot, etc. Kudos to those guys.

    Look, if any of us had the opportunity to hunt that many big bucks and take that many shots each season, eventually we too will have a "brain fart" moment eventually when Mr. Big shows up. It happens. If only I had their opportunities!

    My only caution is that I get the sense these guys are trying too hard sometimes, to get that deer shot on film. But dead deer on film is what pays the bills in this industry.
     
  14. tynimiller

    tynimiller Legendary Woodsman

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    This...this...this.

    The moment this year where Clint didn't want to film his initial walk up was some of the purest moments of the show in my opinion, and while none of it made the episode, that moment captured more about the pureness of hunting than any big buck footage the guys will ever knock out. The sad fact is though pressure is felt by some of them, maybe at different times or for different reasons and I do think to an extent that alters their reactions or choices at times...nature of the beast I suppose. It is the #1 reason why I keep being hesitant about filming my hunts or joining a team where that is necessary...if I film it is secondary, be crazy having it be first.
     
  15. purebowhunting

    purebowhunting Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I don't see anything wrong with that shot, what am I missing?
     
  16. c e w

    c e w Weekend Warrior

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    I think showing the hunt was a MUST. I am not that experienced a bow hunter as any one who read some of my post's know.He knew it was not ideal and fessed up to it and then showed how hard of a track it is to recover the deer. How many would cross that many property lines to do that. That shot is why I like to watch this show. It shows the good the bad and the ugly.
     
  17. muzzyman88

    muzzyman88 Die Hard Bowhunter

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    This is personally why I think BHOD is one of the best shows going in many ways. There isn't too many shows that go into detail about recovery of an animal when its a great shot, let alone if its a not so great shot. THAT is where our new bowhunters will learn a lot from this show.
     
  18. Hillbilly Jedi

    Hillbilly Jedi Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I will only speak for myself but hopefully some others will take something away from this....

    This fall was my 2nd season bow hunting and 2nd year taking a buck. I thought the shot Justin took was at a crazy angle but, he's an experienced hunter and felt comfortable to do it. Someone like myself should know their limitations and accurately gauge their ability. I would not have taken, or hope to say I wouldn't, have taken that shot Justin did because I don't think I would have felt comfortable with it. I made that decision the first year I hunted. I had 2 bucks right in front of me. The larger of the 2 was facing directly at me and a little smaller buck was perfectly broadside. I learned from being in the forum and talking to guys, the shot on the bigger buck was not one to take, so I took the smaller of the two. Every hunter will have to decide for themselves based on their experience level to take a shot or not. Some will make good decisions and some won't. As hunters, we hope those that are unsuccessful with a questionable shot will learn from their mistake and not make it again.

    I look at Justin and Todd as role models (even though we're probably the same age) in the archery hunting industry and have learned a ton from the show and from other members on the forum. Ultimately IMO, it's every hunters responsibility to take shots they can comfortably execute and know what those shots are. Maturity comes from making those decisions. However, if you don't push yourself sometimes, you won't get better.
     
  19. Hillbilly Jedi

    Hillbilly Jedi Die Hard Bowhunter

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    And to add quickly, I think Justin did a good job explaining his shot and also explaining the shot he took is not for every hunter.
     
  20. gunther89

    gunther89 Weekend Warrior

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    I agree that Justin's shot was a bad shot to take but in the heat of the moment, sometimes we don't think straight. When you have a big buck at 12 yards and he's walking away, you think you can squeeze a shot through brush or make that perfect shot. Adrenaline will do that to anyone.

    What I didn't like was Todd literally kept trying to bring Justin down. I lost some respect for Todd when he brought Justin down for shooting a buck fawn and now I lost all respect for him. Justin knows he did wrong and openly admitted to it. I know if it was me, I would have had a few choice words for Todd off air.

    Finally then you have Rector's doe hunt, which to me was a bad shot as well. He even said in the post interview it looked like a gut shot, yet he only waited 4-6 hours. Then at the end, Todd had nothing to say about that shot. Call it like it is Todd, both Justin and Tyler made bad shots. Don't just call Justin out.
     

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