I am just getting in to archery. I am a rifle guy for the most part. I love long distance shooting. When shooting long distances and even mid distances with a high powered rifle the elevation or angle of the shot can affect point of impact. This problem is intensified by distance and diminished velocities. Hunting from a stand this shift is inperciveable to the rifle shooter at short ranges with velocities between 2500- 4000 FPS. I wonder though how much arrows, more typically firing between 200-300, FPS are affected. My question being. How much affect in point of impact do you guys notice between shooting flat at targets of a certin range as opposed to shooting at targets when elevated 10-20 Ft. off of the ground? Or if firing up hill at a Target of some sort? Is this something that should be practiced at all?
From typical hunting heights of 15-20 feet the effect is minimal. Maybe a yard to 3 yards difference at most at those heights. Being 3 yards off will not make a world of difference on most compound bows, a couple of inches maybe. However with trad gear it may be more of a problem.
As time of flight increases and shooting angle increases (up or down) the "hitting high" effect will manifest itself. I think average, realistic hunting arrow speeds still rarely exceed 300 fps. Your '06 is clipping along at about 2600 fps so the apparent effect will be greatly apparent with the slower projectile. The short answer is "yes" practice the angles from which you plan on shooting. You will be surprised at the difference from shooting across level ground.
Downhill AND Uphill shots will see the "avg" archer hitting "high". To what degree will depend on ydg.....and you're gonna have to shoot a few of these to know how much to compensate. Your arrow starts below your sight line on EVERY shot (regardless of grade). On downhill and uphill shots, the arrow doesn't fall towards the sight line as much. You're just gonna have to experiment with them (varying ydgs) to know how much YOUR setup is affected.
Cool. Something I knew about rifles, payed off with bows. From what yall are telling me I think I will site in with targets placed around my stand then do most of my practice accepting my ground level shots will be off a bit. Concentrating in practice on group size instead of POA impacts. Thanks for the responses.
Let me add this, though....... For MOST bowhunting distances, you shouldn't notice a difference in POI (treestand shots v. level ground shots). My advice to you would be to NOT anticipate a discrepancy. Utilize good form and take dead aim for what you wanna hit (i.e DON'T compensate). I think you'll find that this is a non-issue in the hunting world.
Remember that your distance up in a tree is measured in feet not yards. When you look at it in yards compared to your target distance it is minimal. The big thing of shooting from an elevated position is how the arrow strikes the animal and the wound channel that you want to leave. Study a deer's anatomy and look at how the arrow is going to travel through the vitals at different angles. Shots real close in to your tree make it very difficult to get a good double lung hit.
Yes, I guess good shots with a bow are much different then with a rifle. If the deer were very close with a rifle I whould useually go to the head or spine. Arrows arn't so good at that small of a target, and penetration on the spine would be doubtfull I would supose. Double lung and heart shots seam to be the order of the day here if I gather you guys correctly. And at really close ranges with a stand 15' in the air a double lung would be impossible. Heart is still a small target. Maybe I should spend a bit more time in Deer Anatomy 101 and not sweat ballistics so much. I had always heard it was a more challanging kill, but the reality of bow hunting is starting to sink in. I should brush up on my tracking skills a bit as well. I somehow doubt there will be any deer fall where they are hit with my bow.
You're definately right on the heart lung shots being the shot to take on a broadside deer. You put an arrow through both lungs and you will see a few of them tip over. Some won't make it 30 yards. But miss the vitals and yes, you could be in for a long difficult tracking job. It takes a different mentality to be a bow hunter opposed to a gun hunter. Get em close wait till he's broadside, draw undetected and put one through the boiler room. No other feeling like it.
If you are hunting on level terrain, from an actual height of 25 feet (Actual height is shoulder height to the ground) and shooting at a deer (Deer is approximately 3 feet to the spine so I used 22 feet as the height), here is a chart to give you an idea of what you are looking at. The first number is the value a non-arc calculating rangefinder would give you (Line of sight distance) to your target. The second number is the actual horizontal distance to the target (Base of the tree to the target). Line Of Sight Distance / Horizontal Distance 20y / 18.6y 30y / 29.0y 40y / 39.3y 50y / 49.4y 60y / 59.4y Basically if you are using your 20 yard pin on a deer that your rangefinder said is 20 yards away, you would be aiming 1.4 yards long as the deer is actually only 18.6 yards away. Not as much of an error as I thought it would be when I first started doing the calculations.
For most people not holding good form when shooting at angles, affects thier accuracy MUCH more than the slight difference between the line of sight and horizontal difference does.
Remember to draw and anchor straight out and then bend at the waist to shoot down. Don't draw back while you're crouched over, looking down, your anchor will come up short and your form will suck.
The ydg. discrepancy (and we're still talking miniscule intervals) SHOULD (Ok....will) become greater as the distance increases.
I didn't do the math but I don't think so. The farther away the deer is the closer the 2 distances are. Think of it this way. If the deer is at the base of the tree he is 22 feet away from you, but only 1 foot by straight line away from the tree. You move the deer away from the tree and the 2 distances get closer together. (I think)
You may be right. I'll do the math in real-time.....and use "extremes" on both ends to decide. Hunter height is 8yds (24')......baseline. On an 8yd horizontal distance to target, the actual distance from hunter to target is 11.313yds. On a 20yd horizontal distance to target, the actual distance from hunter to target is 20.18yds. On a 30yd horizontal distance to target, the actual distance from hunter to target is 30.04yds. On a 100yd horizontal distance to target, the actual distance from hunter to target is 100.31yds. On a 500yd horizontal distance to target, the actual distance from hunter to target is 500.06yds. So your theory seems to be correct. Let's use "typical" bowhunting ydgs as examples. On a 10yd horizontal distance to target, the actual distance from hunter to target is 12.08yds. On a 15yd horizontal distance to target, the actual distance from hunter to target is 17yds. So....I stand, corrected!
The reason the distance gets smaller is because as you go out farther you arent getting higher off the ground gradually leveling out the shot. The descrepancy narrows in this situation. If you did go higher as the shot lengthend the angle wouldn't change, therefore decrepancy would grow acordingly. Thank you for the info. It seams the problem is minute at best.
Probably the best advice you can give for a new bow shooter from a tree stand. This is much easier on paper than in real life. Practice this.
Yep, honestly after looking at the actual numbers, it seems that poor shooting form must have more to do with it than the angle of the shot. What the other guys have stated (be sure to bend from the waist and keep your spine straight) would likely stop the shots from hitting too much high. Also remember that a bunch of deer duck when you shoot so that has something to do with it as well. A shot even as close as 20 yards would only be off by 1.4 yards... maybe the width of your pin at that distance?
What about when you are shooting from ground level? I figure this could be determined with simple geometry, correct? You just have to estimate the angle and solve for the hypotenuse and leg of a right triangle right?
