One of the greatest mixed martial arts (UFC) fighters ever. He grew up a country boy on a farm in Illinois. He has been hunting a long time.
So when would one EVER be ready to enter a fight? Doesn't one have to begin somewhere? I am confused on how he is NOT ready? He has practiced for years, knows how to fight, its time for him to enter the ring where he is starting to get knocked back without pads. Of course he is ready to begin fighting, he may not be ready to be the new world champion, but ready to begin fighting? I think we try and make it seem WAY harder than what it truly is. You don't have to go out and mow down as many deer as possible to become ready to kill a deer. You watch for a clear shot, the right angle, the right deer, how calm the deer is, etc....ALL of which can be practiced on the smaller animals WITHOUT releasing an arrow. When you actually release an arrow, you learn how to blood trail and a deer's reaction to a shot. That is IT. no spins about it, your learning from killing deer is limited to the aftermath of the kill. And I am sorry but mowing down 100 does will not EVER prepare me or anyone I know for being full draw on a bruiser buck, they are NOTHING alike. I am a relatively new bowhunter, with relatively few successes. I think where I may be viewing it differently is, I got my start in gun hunting, so I already knew how to bloodtrail, how to clean a deer, what it is like having a HUGE buck at 30 yards, etc. Are you guys assuming the person is new to deer hunting in general? I am not saying that you don't learn a lot every time you kill a deer, I am just saying that tipping over deer as often as you can to start out may not be the route for everyone. It seems, as this thread points out anyway, that most bowhunters automatically assume failure for others. If you haven't killed __ deer, you won't be able to hold it together for a big buck. I just think the process is MUCH easier than everyone tries to pretend it is. Killing particular deer or a particular class deer, is when it starts getting challenging in my opinion. Maybe I will whistle a different tune 20 years from now, but i strongly disagree with the NEED to kill as many deer as possible just for the sake of having killed them for the experience. If that's what makes you happy, by all means do so. But if it doesn't, I wouldn't feel the pressure to do so anyway, go for the deer that you won't regret shooting.
Most of us here have been hunting a long time. There will be misses, poor shots and deer lost this season by members on this site. Thats a given.....so whats the difference between a rookie screwing up and a guy with 20+ years under the belt? I shot (at) every deer in range for over 15 years. But I don't know that I learned that much by doing so, other than field dressing shortcuts.
Fewer words may be better, I agree 100% although I skipped the shoot anything route (with the bow anyway). I just fail to see what knowledge I gained from my first three animals that I just HAD to know that I didn't already.
"So when would one EVER be ready to enter a fight? Doesn't one have to begin somewhere? I am confused on how he is NOT ready? He has practiced for years, knows how to fight, its time for him to enter the ring where he is starting to get knocked back without pads. Of course he is ready to begin fighting, he may not be ready to be the new world champion, but ready to begin fighting?" There are some many reasons as to why he is NOT ready I could not list them all. But here is a fighting analogy as a response to the original question by the thread starter... "So what are your thoughts, do you need to kill deer to know how to kill deer??? " To know how to kill deer ( knockout people in the ring) you need to actually do it over and over in a live environment to really "know" how to do it. Yeah you might knockout people that are not that good, but to take on better people, you need to gain expeerience fighting lower class fighters in order to gain your game experience. The same can be said with submitting people via submissions. You could be submitting all the people in your gym left and right, yet once you enter the ring you forget your technique due to adrenaline, fatigue, and from your brain trying to figure exactly going on in the heat of the moment. The experience to handle those types of things can only be gained by fighting and training like you are going to fight. And you can relate that to killing deer or any other sporting event. Again, that being said, I DO NOT care how another person hunts and wish every much success.
Not picking a fight, honestly wanting to see the other side of this. Could you explain what knowledge of the process you gain from killing a deer that is NOT related to the process after a shot (trailing, waiting time, etc). I guess I could see controlling emotions, but I have never had a problem with that, even when at full draw on a P&Y. I will point out that the emotions and thoughts I personally experienced were NOTHING alike when I killed my buck and doe, and my buck was small compared to others I was at full draw on during the season (which would have widened the difference even farther). I'll leave it at that after your response as I don't want to draw out any arguement or anything, just curious as to what I am overlooking.
Imagine an archer (archer 1) who can shoot the lights out in practice. He practices every bit as the world champion and they are equally skilled when practicing alone. The world class archer (archer 2) has entered over 100 archery tournaments. Who would you put your money on if they met up at a national tournament and it was Archer 1's first tournament?
Guys, it’s time we recognize that TEmbry here is hunting prodigy with talent, composure and skills that took most hunters many years and many bowkills to acquire. Quik is fired, all hail the new King.
I almost feel sorry for someone who could hunt for say 10-20-30 years for instance and feel they have learned nothing from their killing experiences that would help them become a more efficient hunter. I think probably the biggest thing I have learned over time is "patience". Many of the guys newer to the sport make the mistake of rushing or forcing shots. This is not to say that some of you newer guys here do this...it's just something I have seen in many other hunters I know. And I will promise you this...when the "big one" walks by...the more times you have been through the routine of making a good shot...the more confident and patient you will be.
No questioning to get the other side to tell you more of an answer, ok. While I truly am appreciative of your gracious offer, I'd like to leave any thrones, talents, and prodigy titles where they were. Just a guy trying to learn what I should have learned when I killed my first few deer. I guess I'll keep scrapping by this year trying to piece this intrinsic puzzle together. Thanks for being an ass about it though! Edit: Jeff, I honestly feel I learned # 3,4,6,7,8,9 my first year hunting without ever shooting an arrow. Those can ALL be acquired by drawing and going through the motions on deer you have no intentions of actually killing. Wholeheartedly agree 1,2,5 can be learned to an extent, but not fully until the arrow is released on animals more than once. Learning your range is a great one I overlooked completely!
Not every kill shot is a deer standing broadside in the wide open with all the time in the world. Slow walk thru the woods, pick your window to shoot or stop? Make that choice in ¼ of the time it took you to read that sentence. Deer sees you on the draw, & freezes. Aim low? How low? Feeding deer, taking “random” steps. Shoot at the right moment. Deer appears out of no where. Grab your bow, draw, and shoot in limited time without rushing the shot. Draw surrounded by multiple sets of eyes. Small opening to squeeze an arrow thru, what factors do you have to account for? Angled shots..enough said. I can’t believe I didn’t think of this one til now. Post mortem on EVERY deer. Translate your actual entry/exit holes into what organs were hit. Would anyone here ever think a 13 yd shot breaking the opposite leg/shoulder of a deer would allow that deer to still be alive 4 hrs later? Tell me how any of the above is learned without trying to, or actually killing the deer.
I gotta get back to work guys, It can be drug out as far as you want and I agree things ARE learned with every kill, but not so much that the inexperienced fresh rookie isn't prepared to kill a deer. Stopped/alert deer, aim lower edge of vitals. I personally wouldn't take a shot by choosing a window in cover on a walking deer. Sorry you were raked over the coals Jeff. I join your ranks then. I used to draw on a deer all the time without releasing the arrow, it's good practice for learning all these things you guys elude to. If you got to full draw on the deer, then check you learned that part, releasing the arrow does nothing to further the knowledge of when/how/where to draw back. Aiming is one thing we should study charts/pics/diagrams etc for and steer away from very sharp angles. And if you don't botch the shot, you really didn't learn much on the shot placement, other than, well that place works. I guess I will have to loose a deer before I experience these unavoidable lessons (which I am not naive enough to think it won't happen). I'll keep learning over the years, but likely won't change my opinion on how prepared one is to kill a deer without killing a lot of them. Public admittance of my idiotic stance (though I stick by it), nothing more could be gained by another post by me anyway. I'll check in tomorrow to read responses that possibly point out other things I overlooked.
an example here....My brother killed a 120" buck last yr the second time he ever stepped foot in the woods with a bow....sounds easy? well for the rest of the season he missed 3 different times with no kill...oh yeh, the second deer he shot at was a 140" 8 pt at 8 yds!! now if he had some kills under his belt, he would have likely killed that deer..
Having never killed an animal doesn’t mean that one is incapable of doing so. Having killed many doesn’t mean that killing the next one is guaranteed. BUT unless you are unable to learn at all (or already know everything) you will learn things by killing (attempting to kill) that you otherwise wouldn’t if you let the animal walk by (even if you were at full draw the whole time). To dispute that shows that you are very naïve, very arrogant, or an idiot.
Guy's This is a very simple question...... Hell yes! What do you think, reading about it is just as good? The more you do something (practice), it helps you learn and do better at it. No one has ever said that you should kill as many as possible, but at least kill enough to meet your venison requirements for the year. It's all about the odds. Who do you think would be the most proficient at killing a deer...... A guy with 3-5 bow kills or a guy with 12 -15? Everything else being equal. This is just a small part of being a better hunter. No deer kill is a 100%. Something can always go wrong. Having experience at it helps, no denying it. Who wouldn't like to increase their odds at making a killing shot on a deer? Personally, I went for it and killed some deer. Over the years it has really helped me make killing shots on some nice bucks, the most skiddish of deer. The only difference between killing a monster buck and a doe is the amount of tension for both you and the deer. Usually, huge bucks tend to get people the most flustered. Practice has helped. I say..... Kill some deer, become proficient! It will only help.
I just watched an episode of Bowhunter Magazine TV and in their Dead On with Randy Ulmer segment he recommends this exact thing. His reasoning is there is no practice you can do at home to simulate a hunting situation. He goes on to state that the 2 things you can not practice outside of a hunting situation is drawing on a live animal and aiming at a wild animal. He said he tries to draw on every legal deer that comes within shooting range. He also said he likes to go through his entire shot sequence like he was going to shoot so that he know what he can and can not get away with. Just thought I would share that since it came up here.
You can learn how to kill a deer without ever killing one. When you kill one... well you know more than you did before. Some of us learn faster than others. Fact of life. Some people are slow learners. LOL It's suppose to be fun. Go hunting and shoot something.
