Chad: I know how you feel. I met the owners years ago and was given a few of them over the years. I felt the same as you. Then in the international hunter safety conference in Missoula Mt there was extensive discussion about suspension trauma. I had the opportunity to try a rock climbing unit and then 3 different full body harnesses. When hanging after a slip or fall the rock climber harness wins hands down. One will only feel the difference when they try it for them self.
Exactly. It's not worth the risk to me. Harnesses, like moyorcycle helmets, are designed to take one fall. Not multiples.
Rock climbers take falls daily and use the same harness over and over. I never thought about this before. Would this be another reason to use a rock climbing harness? They are less expensive and last longer.
It's no different then any other four point harness. I've had couple different jobs that required you to wear one at certain times and if a person falls you haveta get rid of harness. If its damaged or not doesn't matter has to be replaced according to OSHA.
I wonder why osha doesn't do that to rock climbers, or mountain climbers. On rock climbing walls people fall constantly without replacing their harness.
Because those are recreational activities and uses not controlled by OSHA. Of course OSHA is going to err on the safe side - that's their job. Just a few comments and questions. 1. thirdhand - can you point me to some sort of bonafide statistics that show the number of deaths caused by suspension trauma of hunters who fell from a treestand, or while climbing up to or down from a treestand? I've heard an awful lot about this the past few years but have yet to see any real reports showing that a hunter has died from this. 2. If I do happen to fall from my stand the last thing on my mind is how comfortable I am while trying to get back to my stand or climbing sticks. 3. If used properly (key word here) there is no reason that if you fall you should not be able to easily gain access to your stand or climbing sticks. The trouble typically comes when gear isn't used in the manner in which it was designed - most notably the tether being too low and the hunter falling on the side of their stand opposite their climbing sticks or steps. However, as noted earlier, if you place your tether at the proper height you will not fall below your platform and thus should be able to regain your footing without too much difficulty. Seems to me like you're trying to invent a solution for a problem that doesn't really exist.
My information has mostly come from the International hunter safety conferences. I honestly can't find the stats either and don't know why. What I do know is suspension trauma is real. The weird part is some die just after being rescued. After the blood pools in the legs, toxins get into the blood. When suspension trauma occurs the legs need to be lifted into a sitting position to allow the blood to flow slowly to the brain. If the trauma victim is laid down immediately the blood toxins end up killing the person. "Seems to me like you're trying to invent a solution for a problem that doesn't really exist." Rock climbing harnesses have been around for years, so I'm not inventing anything. Suspension trauma is as real as it gets. What I am noticing, is the only ones who have posted against rock climbing harnesses, are the ones who haven't used them. I have yet to meet anybody who has used both through a hunting season that went back to a full body attached in the back system yet. Never met a tree arborist that worked in a tree in a full body harness that attached in the back either. And osha does get involved with tree arborist.
That's because arborists and linemen spend their whole day facing the tree or pole they're on. If I wanted to do something like that, I'd get a LW Assassin.
Once again. 86% of the tree stand accidents occur while climbing in or out of the tree which means 86% of the accidents happen while facing the tree. Why not just try it? You might just love it like so many others have.
I have two Tree Spider Micro Harness, and a HSS Lifeline.. I'm going to buy more life lines and maybe another harness.. I was thinking about the lone wolf harness?? Do you guys have any thoughts on this harness?? But I may buy another tree spider.. I like the light weight of the harness and it fits good and seems to be of good quality. Although I must admit even though I had them, I did not use them last season. I was in a ladder stand and was just lazy.. Never again though. I suppose the Im a Marine, I won't get hurt filled my head to much..
Thank you for your service sir. Any fall arrest system beats a blank. Contrary to popular belief, marines do get hurt too.
I know what suspension trauma is and it's most certainly real but once again I ask how big of a threat is it to those using their safety equipment properly? I've still yet to see a single report that shows this happening in a hunting situation. Most of the reports you hear about (and there are very few I might add) are extenuating circumstances that happen in rock climbing and similar accidents. I'm not talking about rock climbing, I'm talking about hunting. We're talking apples and oranges here. Tree arborists spend all of their time facing the tree so they can work. Hunters spend most of their time facing away from the tree. Two entirely different applications which clearly require two different types of safety systems. To each their own. You can wear your rock climbing getup and I'll stick with my HSS.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. If you ever get a chance to try it hunting I bet the attitude will change. I really can't think of a reason why abt hunter isn't willing to try one in a stand. I thought this bow hunting forum was so bow hunters could learn new techniques etc. Its hard to learn if one isn't willing to try.
Look at what just jumped up on another hunting forum. Someone who actually tried it. "Well, after reviewing a number of posts and threads I decided to go to REI to check out their selection of rock climbing harnesses. After putting on a couple of different models, I wanted to slap myself for not going this direction before today. I ended up going with the Mammut Ophir 3 Slide model, which I liked a little better than the Black Diamond Alpine BOD. The biggest difference was comfort, and for about $15 more I thought it was worth it. Immediately I noticed how much lighter rock climbing harnesses are and it's easy to see how much easier it will be to shoot using one. I talked with the associate about safety and she said rock climbing harnesses are made to deal with all types of falls and the fact that the rope connection is in the front would make it much easier to get back on a ladder or stand. I'm looking forward to using it this season." Thanks to everyone on..........I believe I ended up with superior gear for about half of the price that I was going to spend.
I did actually try one and you didn't like my answer. You are like a dog with a bone with these rock harnesses; you just won't let it go. You have a lot of experience and knowledge under your belt and I respect that. But dang, you refuse to even consider your opinion might not be the best for everybody.
Yes Coop You are correct. I didn't like your answer. I left it go because I really didn't want to argue over something I know to be wrong. "Having said that I have carefully/slowly hung in a Muddy and it is fine. You are strong proponent for the rock climbing harnesses, but I have tried them and they are not for me. The strap in the front for one thing, it does get in the way when standing and turning to shoot in the direction the strap comes around on. People are different, it's what makes the world go round. I love firm seats on stands and motorcycles, however I don't go around telling people that think opposite that they are wrong LOL." Last edited by Coop; 06-15-2014 at 07:12 AM. First in a 4 point harness 90% of the weight is in the hunters crotch when hanging. With a Rock climber the hunter is in a sitting position with the weight being supported by the legs and waist belt. One can hang comfortably for a long time. If you hunted with the tether tied at armpit height down the side and under your arm it will not get in the way. Sorry it just isn't going to happen unless one is spinning around on stand. So if it is o k with you I'll keep this bone.
Fitz: Ya really got my curiosity up now. What qualifications does it take to become an administrator on this forum??? Todd ask me to come on here and contribute to this site to help get it going again. This has been a serious conversation that you and a couple others who haven't hunted with a Rock climbing harness on have made comments on that are not correct. When you don't like my answer and have nothing left you try to make yourself look cool by the above post. You do have to remember that there are other hunters that are reading this information and just might like to try something new. There are those on this site that don't wear a harness for various reasons. This might be the answer for them. If you don't like my post, skip on to the next one.
So what do you say to someone who has tried it and not made the switch. You keep trying to criticize people for not agreeing with your way of thinking but won't admit your way is not right for everything. You keep stressing susoension trauma yet won't answer how often that's the cause of death in a treestand fall despite all your other facts your coming up with I figured that'd be a easy one. Regardless of whar harness you wear at least its something. And yea most falls happen climbing in and out of stand but they even make products to prevent that. If you do slip your ladder or steps are right there if set up properly.
If you can show me a previous post where someone used it properly to hunt and switched back, then I would have to agree with their decision. So far all objections were from opinions that were not tried in the field. You are correct that I don't know the number of hunters that died from suspension trauma. If one person dies using a four point vs a rock climber harness that is one too many. They would not put suspension trauma relief straps with them, if they didn't cause suspension trauma. Recently there was a rock climber who fell 40'. Hung unconscious for a while and 2 hours total, waiting for a helicopter rescue. If he had been in a 4 point harness he would have been dead. Although suspension trauma is one reason to wear a rock climber harness, it isn't the only reason. Generally speaking the basic models are much cheaper than the HSS. Much easier to put on as you are only basically putting on the bottom half of a 4 point harness. A lot of hunters complain about the weight of each item they carry. Mine weighs 14oz. Attach the tether under the armpit when sitting and across the lap. When you stand the tether goes lower and stays out of the way. If the hunter falls he may end up 3-6" below the seat at most. So he can easily get back on the platform. Put the strap up the tree for a 4 point harness to the proper height when sitting. Then a right handed shooter stands and turns right to make a shot behind the tree. The strap gets in the way. This doesn't happen with a rock climbing system because the tether is below the arm. You are absolutely correct that something is better than nothing. 4 point harnesses have saved many lives over the years.
