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****s won't sell them.

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by early in, Feb 28, 2018.

  1. w33kender

    w33kender Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I want a mossberg 500 with the 8 shell capacity more than anything else.
     
  2. dnoodles

    dnoodles Legendary Woodsman

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    So you are for a national gun registry? Because that's what 4 gets you.
     
  3. dnoodles

    dnoodles Legendary Woodsman

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    I'm dreading the day the next mass shooter thinks the same thing.
     
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  4. jrk_indle84

    jrk_indle84 Grizzled Veteran

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  5. cantexian

    cantexian Legendary Woodsman

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    How do strong criminal background and mental health evaluations require a national gun registration? I do not see the connection. I am against national gun registration. Canada tried for a decade, it did nothing but create another government bureaucracy and prove law-abiding gun owners weren’t committing crimes.


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    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  6. jayb

    jayb Newb

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    Screw over priced ****s sporting goods I love my ARs and 30rd mags there like legos for grown men I'm building a 4th right now lmao.

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  7. jayb

    jayb Newb

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  8. jayb

    jayb Newb

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  9. dnoodles

    dnoodles Legendary Woodsman

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    ****S point 4:
    "require universal background checks that include mental health information and previous interactions with the law"

    Every single NICS background check creates a permanent record - with the serial # of the gun being purchased. The ATF keeps these - forever. Ergo, a permanent gun registry. However, this record only applies to guns purchased from FFL dealers - NOT private gun sales. (Dispelling the "gun show loophole" myth.)


    Which makes ****S point 6 redundant:
    "close the private sale and gun show loophole that waives the necessity of background checks"

    By banning all private sales (ie not from FFL holders) then all sales would be subject to NICS checks....and entered into permanent ATF records; a de facto national gun registry.



    Admittedly this permanent registry record would only apply to the future transfer of guns- all current privately-owned held guns would be exempt until they were sold or traded after the owner doesn't want them anymore or dies. Then when transferred to another person (including inheritance) they would be subject to the NICS entry. Eventually every gun, new and old would be registered to a specific person. If a gun was found in the possession of a person other than to whom the gun is registered; it would be considered illegally possessed and the holder subject to prosecution.

    Criminal background and mental health eval requirements for all gun transfers/purchases = a national gun registry. One can argue the need but not the fact. If there was a way for Joe Citizen gun seller to run a potential buyer against a national banned list without being linked to a specific gun I'd be all for it - but that's not what's being proposed. The Dems (and prog Repubs) want to piggyback off the current FFL/NICS system; meaning all gun transfers would be linked to the specific gun being transferred to the specific person.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  10. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    Canada national healthcare has more to do with their lack of mass shootings and gun violence than any of their laws.

    In the major countries owning a gun is a privileged and healthcare is deemed a right, in USA it's reversed, owning a gun is a right and healthcare is a privilege. Get people access to healthcare(mental health) and mass shootings go down, without changing a law. 40 years ago we used to have mental health hospitals in Michigan, they're gone now.

    So we have mentally ill people who can't get help, a background check system that is just broke from a process standpoint and system IMO. Easy access to guns for these mentally ill people, what could go wrong?
     
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  11. Me53

    Me53 Weekend Warrior

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    You nailed it. It's a clothing store.

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  12. dnoodles

    dnoodles Legendary Woodsman

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    Surprisingly, I am in agreement with a lot of the sentiment. However, the problem with most of these mass shooters is they are on a cocktail of Dr. prescribed antidepressants which quite possibly when combined or (conversely when the patient suddenly stops taking them on their own )puts them over the edge.

    I'm not a doctor or a psychotherapist, but there has to be research which shows certain medications can have whatever X adverse affects. Then anyone prescribed those medications should be placed on a national do not buy list. Kind of like epilepsy and driving.
     
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  13. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    100% agreement in bold
     
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  14. virginiashadow

    virginiashadow Legendary Woodsman

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    Person A-Bi polar and takes X medication. Adverse side effects may be intense mood swings. Person A is 50 years old and has never had a run in with the law or had a violent event. Person A does experience some mood swings.

    Person B-no mental health diagnosis but has been convicted five times for misdemeanor assault and batteries and some other drunk driving offenses.

    In that scenario and according to you, ONLY person A would not be able to own a gun....you comfortable with that?
     
  15. cantexian

    cantexian Legendary Woodsman

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    I lived in Canada for 15 years before moving to the US. Please support this connection with facts. The conclusion that national health care automatically results in lower gun violence is anecdotal at best. 15 years of real life experience would suggest this position is flimsy at best. Canadians have less gun violence for two reasons as I see it:

    1) the Canadian population is 36.7 million http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/demo02a-eng.htm. The population of the US is 327+ million https://www.census.gov/popclock/. US has 10 times the population. It should be expected to see at least 10x the violence. There are more people in California than Canada https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/CA

    2) I have lived in Canada for 15 years and the US for 19 years. The two nations are incredibly similar, I have been blessed to live in the two greatest nations in the world. However, one of the fundamental cultural differences is that Canadians have far more respect for people with differing views towards life. Canadians are far better about disagreeing civilly and allowing others to live their own lives without trying to force their own views on others. In general, Canadians are also far more polite and respectful towards others. Good manners and courtesy go a long ways towards living in a peaceful society. This is a lesson that American culture needs to learn.

    On a side note, having lived in Canada's public health care system for 15 years; it can work for ER visits or going to see the doctor for an antibiotic. The quality of health care is generally as good as what you find in the US. However, it absolutely sucks if you need a non-lifethreatening procedure like an ACL repair. My brother has to wait three months to have screws put in his foot to fix a broken bone. Doctor gave him crutches and told him to deal with it until the surgery. It also requires paying higher taxes to fund it. There is no way around that. Anyone who says otherwise sucks at math. I have seen American government health care works. It is called the VA and it has been terrible to my father-in-law, a Vietnam Vet. Living in America, I will take my private medical insurance premiums and expensive bills over higher taxes and VA quality health care.

    Access to healthcare is not the cause of gun violence in American. A disrespectful and confrontational culture are more influential.
     
  16. cantexian

    cantexian Legendary Woodsman

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    If there is already a de facto gun registry, what is the harm in making the criminal background checks stronger and including a mental health evaluation? I have neither of these problems, but if it helps identify someone who should not have access to a guns, what is the harm. I am playing devil's adovcate, not arguing with you.
     
  17. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    Where did I say it was the cause?

    Where is the data for "disrespectful and confrontational culture are more influential."?

    I am talking about mass shootings here, not just gun violence. Again can a mentally ill person get help in Canada easier than USA? Yes or No?
     
  18. w33kender

    w33kender Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I think all of these conversations would be moot if the system in place had worked in Parkland, Florida.

    A database for epileptics and those taking anti-depressants? Really? Doesn't that infringe upon the rights of those
    Well said, sir.
     
  19. Germ

    Germ Legendary Woodsman

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    IMO if you have assault and batteries or been arrested for Drunk Driving you are on the no buy list. Yes if you are diagnosed as Bi Polar and are on medications, you get put on the no buy list.
     
  20. No.6Hunter

    No.6Hunter Die Hard Bowhunter

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