Just curious. You did say for deer/antelope/similar sized animals...that one qualifier grabbed my attention and thought I'd ask... So what are your thoughts/observations/experiences with larger game...?
I started this mess and it was tongue-in-cheek. And honestly, nearly all of the first hand bad experiences I have had or have seen have been due to 3 blade expandables. If I were to use one, it would most certainly be a two blade head. That being said, a two blade large mechanical actually has less cutting surface than a 3 blade fixed head. So, the fixed head would actually be cutting more tissue than the two blade mechanical. In your opinion, do you think the wider cut of the mechanical just provides a little better chances of getting "lucky" on poor shots? By that I mean, is there a better chance of nicking something vital, like a main artery and that is more lethal than just cutting tissue? This is in no way a "baited" question. You probably have more first hand experience with recovering bowkills than anyone here and I love that you took the time to jump in. By the way, my disdain for Rage is based more on the ethics of product marketing than the product itself. It has zero influence on what I think of the people that shoot them. So, those that took it personally need to lighten up. Its not like I was making fun of a bad haircut. There was no judgment of the people that use them.
Been a Rage for many years.. Never had a failure. With that said, I do not believe they are any "better" than another head. I just started using them and they worked and keep on working...if ain't broke...
Haven't read all the comments but here is my take on the original video. First arrows are not typically going to bust through rib bones because they are not typically hit dead flush so they will deflect one way or another whether shooting mechanicals or fixed blades. Now for the broad head breaking, I am not sure how concerned I am about this broad head based on the video. Without seeing other heads shot under the same circumstances. I would be more concerned about the arrows breaking up. I've had arrows miss the target a few times and end up going straight into solid Wood and not self destruct like those arrows did.
I have used both 2 and 3 blade without a single issue. Killed around 40 deer with them combined all clean pass thrus accept two high spine shots, didn't mean to hit em there, but that's where it went.
Here is the final word straight from the horses mouth. http://forums.bowhunting.com/bowhunting-talk/life-me-69990/?highlight=rage Might as well lock the thread after this post. Nothing more can be debated.
Fletch, I totally understand. Here is my take on a couple of things (sorry this got long). The short answer about getting "lucky" on poor shots, is "absolutely," although, I don't think it's "luck" I'll explain my thoughts shortly. I can only speak from my personal experiences and things I see with clients, etc. My theory has always been this... "I don't buy a broadhead to perform when I make a perfect shot, any broadhead will do that. I buy the broadhead that gives me the best chance of recovery when I make a poor shot." The grand majority of "bad shots" that I see are too far back, perhaps that's because; animals never "back-up" when the bow goes off, or if someone shoots when the animal is walking (they typically don't walk backwards), or if the animal is quartered-to more than they appear. All of which results in liver, guts or worse. What situation of natural animal movement often results in a shoulder shot? I can't think of many. Liver shots can bleed well, gut/intestine may bleed well early and then disappear. In that situation, I want the biggest hole, the most tissue damage and the "hardest to plug" hole I can get... I don't worry about penetration behind the diaphragm and definitely not behind the ribs. You are 100% correct that some fixed blade heads will indeed have more cutting surface than a 2" mechanical. A slick trick magnum (1 1/8") obviously has 2 1/4" of cutting surface, a 3-blade muzzy (1 3/16" dia.) only has 1.78" of cutting surface. The biggest difference to me is that the cutting distance from the tip to the of the broadhead to the outside of a blade is .56" on a ST, .59" or nearly double at 1"+ on a big mech. As bowhunters, we are trying to kill the animal through blood loss, whether the blood is filling up the lungs, leaking out both sides, or liver blood is poisoning the vital systems. Also, outside of spine shots, bowhunters recover their animals by (hopefully) a blood trail. I mention this for a couple of reasons; 1. The bigger the hole, the more blood, the better the chance of recovery. 2. It is far easier for a smaller hole to clog, seal up or become obstructed than a large hole. Finally, to your question about getting "lucky" on hitting something else like a vein or artery. For simplicity, if you think about a 1/4" wide artery running horizontal. Using the ST head above, the farthest off of center you can hit from that artery and still cause blood loss is .56" and that is if one blade is perfectly perpendicular, less than that if the broadhead goes in like an "X". Take the same artery with a 2" mech, you have 1" either side to achieve the same result and still have the opportunity to cut up a whole lot of other stuff. I don't know if this makes sense, but I would rather have my wound spread out than concentrated in one smaller spot. The smaller diameter 4-blade broadhead essentially cuts the same tissue twice within a 1.125" hole, a 3-blade isn't much different, where as a big 2-blade is cutting 2" or more of different tissue. Again I apologize for the length... IMO a larger hole gives you better chance of clipping something vital, it gives you a larger hole that is harder to seal and cuts more tissue causing more blood loss. I qualify that statement because, personally, I haven't seen very many adult bow setups that wouldn't work for deer sized game with a mechanical head. Without question, elk sized animals can be killed effectively with mechanical broadheads. I've seen lots of elk fall to rages, rocket steelheads, spitfires, ulmer edge etc. IMHO, the bow/arrow setup is much more significant when it comes to shooting mech's for elk than deer, so again, I qualified it because it may not be right for everyone. I feel that brass inserts, heavier broadheads and overall heavier arrows combined with large cutting heads are significantly underused and provide a great deal advantages to most shooters. Just some fun facts from the years past... 1. I've seen more elk and deer not recovered from fixed blade heads than I have mechanical heads (on a percentage basis as well as the total number). 2. I've seen more animals not recovered with the Montec than any other head on the market (and not because more people shoot them). 3. I can't recall ever losing a client's antelope or deer that was hit in the body cavity with a 2-blade mech. 4. I've seen lots of elk killed with rage heads. I personally watched a guy shoot a bull at 50 yards with a 52lb bow with a 2-blade rage perfectly behind the shoulder. The arrow buried to the fletchings and the bull went 75 yards and died. The broadhead cut/broke 1 full rib on the way in. Do I recommend the setup, no, did the broadhead perform? Absolutely.
I'll keep this video in mind next time I decide to shoot a cow which is standing on its head so the ribs are horizontal and compressed.
IMO it is the inexperienced bowhunter, with the untuned bow, who turns to mechanicals because fixed heads won't fly for them. Those are the guys with the horror stories and the guys who blame the broadhead....because it can't be their fault! For experienced hunters a mechanical head is a very effective tool. One thing that is often overlooked is when using a fixed head, it is very possible to get that thing flying perfect...under perfect conditions. Now you take that perfectly tuned machine up 20' up into a treestand, you're all bundled up in heavy clothes, and the deer comes in behind the tree at a steep downward angle. Guess what, your shooting form suffers do to the above variables, it has to. And guess what happens when shooting form suffers, fixed broadhead flight goes all to heck. Mechanical heads, not as much, they are more forgiving of bad form. I want that forgiveness factor.
Insert mindful reason why broadhead "a" is better than broad head "b". Proceed to accept that no one gives a fancy fart and will use what they want because there is no "right" broadhead.
a guy who shoots rage and keeps one fixed head in the quiver said when asked about the fixed head " cuz you never know when one of those steel 55 gal barrels is going to appear in your stand.." it was priceless.
Best part is 12 pages and neither side was persuaded, still a fun debate and both sides are convinced the other is wrong.
Not entirely. I would consider a very good quality two blade expandable. IF my setup would be sufficient. (And it is) I can promise it wont be a Rage.
Lol, not likely. If bad form is bad enough to mess up a shot, it ain't gonna matter what you have on the end of that arrow.
