I'm curious if others see similiar trends as far as trophy hunting/QDM. I see a lot of guys here in VA that say they or their club are into QDM but what it really is they want to only shoot big bucks. What I mean is they have the land, they have the crops, and they have rules on shooting young bucks so that appears to be QDM'ish but they almost never shoot does. They are almost all trophy hunters and when they are in stand they aren't even remotely thinking about shooting a doe. Say you have 5 guys on a lease (3 buck tags each,VA) and they kill 7 bucks. Now assuming they have a decent buck to doe ratio which anywhere in VA would probably be like 3 to 1, just to keep the ratio the same wouldn't they need to kill 20+ does? Are they actually hurting their herd? Anyone else see trophy hunting "disguised" as QDM?
Absolutely...it happens all the time. There are a lot of guys that want to shoot that big buck so they have bragging rights and want to leave the culling of does up to someone else. At the same time they want to go off and brag about being in a QDMA managed club or farm. These guys are all about bragging and nothing about actual managing nor do they care one bit about herd health until they stop seeing any big bucks to shoot. They feel that as long as they let young bucks pass they are "doing their part". As far as I'm concerned this is similar to a mindset of roadhunters driving the roads looking for a big buck to poach from the road. Don't put in the time to produce it or the effort to actually hunt and ambush it in a sporting manner but then go around beating their chest like they really accomplished some magnificent feat.
Those individuals don't understand QDM then. The purpose of QDM is to improve the health of the deer herd, which includes taking does and certainly doesn't mean you can ONLY shoot trophy mature bucks.
Those who equate QDM to shooting only trophy bucks understand QDM as well as liberals understand Obamacare....sorry had to Anyways, this misunderstanding is commonplace and honestly the biggest obstacle I'm having with local landowners forming a QDM cooperative in our County...too many guys equate QDM with only shooting trophy caliber bucks when in fact it isn't...yeah more deer may reach that when practiced but it is seriously something different altogether.
We've found that the more does we kill, the more buck activity we witness. And we saw alot of buck activity this year (in person and on camera).
Well consider without following any QDM program, the likelihood of having mature trophy bucks to kill is lower. So I'm sure many people think that QDM is soley for growing big bucks, when as stated above, its about the overall health of the herd. I see a lot of posts from people in other parts where noone thinks about shooting does b/c there isn't a high population. Where I am there are tons of does. So the QDM program in my state doesn't necessarily mean the same thing in a different state. I get unlimited antlerless deer w/ a bow in my state/region.
Yes and no. Most clubs here that are really big will only harvest so many mature bucks. I dont see 5 hunters killing 7 mature bucks. But if they did im sure there are plenty of deer around then. Most of the time kids and junior hunters on those properties kill off the does so its not so bad in some cases.
In theory it's going to turn into shooting bigger bucks because you're letting a certain age group go. But yes, I see a lot of that as well. Getting people together in this area is also a tough task. In all honesty, not many of my neighbors seem interested in the herd health, so you really have to play the mature/bigger bucks more than the other QDM benefits. The negative of doing that is there's a chance they ignore the doe control part which makes QDM almost impossible. Edit: When I was younger I was part of a hunting club that allowed nobody to kill does. Even at that age I understood how crazy that sounded. Let's just say I only was a member for one year.
New, if you mean't 3 does per buck, then yes, they need to kill somes does to keep the herd in good balance. This is strange to me but on my hunting land I have 3 bucks for each doe. I haven't been shooting does because I think I need more. Sadly, it's true.... there are hunters out there that talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk.
Most self proclaimed Qdm guys are really confused TDM guys. It's like herding cats trying to do true QDM. We take 35 baldies and 6 mature bucks/year. Try doing that without bumping mature bucks over the wire. Tomorrow starts the Wisconsin 4 day doe/gun season. We have 6 to go for the goal. Most guys are clueless about CC, Dpsm( how many acres in a SM?), overbrowse, winterkill as well.
What I have noticed over the past 20 years is the fewer deer you see the bigger the bucks will be in the area. I believe it has got to do with competition for food and does. This year was a poor year on our property. Not a shooter (140 or bigger) on camera but there were does all over. While there were plenty of bucks around I do believe that this year there were more deer around in our area then most years. All the landowners in the area had the same problem. We all banded together to trim the herd significantly. 1400 acres = 24 does and 5 bucks from archery thru today. That should help but the other issue is the new landowners on the other side of the ridge. They were able to buckle down this year after shooting 8 bucks and no does last year. It was their 2nd year of owning the property and the 2nd year of shooting 3 1/2 year olds and no does. They shot one buck with a bow this year and nothing with a gun. It all should make for a banner rebuilding year leading into 2014. My areas closer to home all lack the deer population of our property but have bigger deer around. I went more time this year without seeing deer then the last 4 years combined. Frustrating yes. But I was able to see more shooters this year then the last 2 years combined. So QDM needs a good balance. Shooting does is just as much part of it as being a trophy hunter. The meat hunter even plays a part in trimming the herd.
I have had about the same experience as far as clubs here in VA, they generally don't harvest too many mature bucks. Most have no idea what QDM actually is and simply have some form of buck rule(i.e. wider than a 5 gln. bucket, antlers must have at least one fork, or 4 points on a side, etc) these rules almost never have anything to do with a deer actually being mature and usually lead to a bunch of decent 2 1/2 year olds getting mowed down every season. I hunted with one club recently as a guest that has it right. You can only shoot mature bucks, they want you to focus on the size of the bucks body and his rack better have some mass. You shoot a buck that isn't mature it's $100 the first time, $100 the second time and you can only hunt on organized hunt days(no still hunting), if there is a third time you're out. They shoot a ton of does and man do I wish I could get in that club to bowhunt since it's completely opposit of most VA clubs but it's very hard to get in(almost have to be family). The guys I mentioned in the original post have leased about 3 or 400 acres that's surrounded by a bunch more land that isn't hunted terribly hard(no dog hunting) and actually have a pretty sweet set up. I just wonder how many seasons they can harvest deer like that without thinning the does down. They have killed 7 nice bucks that I know of this season and it's not uncommon for them to see 20-30 does late season in an evening, seems like that is a recipe for trouble but I don't know. When I get a second I'll try and post pics from both areas mentioned.
Yeah that's what I meant I just put it backwards. I was being generous too, in many areas of VA it's more like 5 or 6 to 1 as fars does to bucks. They have a pretty good thing going with the lease and I'm not trying to knock the guys or anything(hell my buddies invited me out there) I'm just curious how it will play out as far as the herd.
I hunted with them(the club I mentioned not the small lease)one weekend last season and they killed 3 massive bucks and 1 "borderline" deer. Opening week of gun this year my buddy sent me the last 3 pics. They killed several during bow and bp that are of similiar quality. I never heard anyone at that club reference QDMA but their results are a testamnet to how it works considering 20 miles up the road you'd be happy with a 17" 8 pointer.
That sir , is impressive! Hopefully NY can pull it together a little bit in the near future. Not sure how its all gonna work out. We have some qdma around here, but it seems to be a joke from what I can see. They set guidelines, and by the looks of some of the bucks I've seen hanging, the don't follow them.
Yeah I agree and wish I had access. I like the club I currently hunt with there's a bunch of good guys and some good land and it is a fun place to hunt. We'll never be that(^) kind of club mainly because of lack of adjoining land and the culture. Guys don't like to shoot does much. I think out of the first 30 deer we tagged this season there were 6 antlerless deer and maybe 3 mature bucks, I don't really care I just can't help but wonder about the potential in an area like that which has the genetics, the food sources, and a healthy population. We kill at least 1 or 2 giants every season doing nothing and several bucks weighing in between 210 and 240 and the does aren't too shabby either, we killed 2 in bp that went 135 & 142. Anyway let me quit whining and go buy some Mega-Million tickets, that way I can get started on my Whitetail Paradise
from a buck standpoint Qdm simply wants mature bucks. Most mature bucks will never break 130 gross in the best antler growing states. In most states any buck that sees a 3rd bday is a win for maturity.
Maturity is the name of the game...to measure a buck by sheer inches is in my opinion disrespectful to the animal. Some bucks simply won't produce a 130 inches...but is a freaking stud of a buck in year 5 and is a ridiculously tougher to harvest than the 2 1/2 year old idiot buck that already sports a 135 inch rack. Most guys simply equate trophy with inches where I 100% disagree fully with due to the fact that doesn't fully equate. Now yes typically speaking the two overlap (inches and maturity) but I've seen some ridiculously low scoring mature bucks and some ridiculously high scoring young bucks. Getting guys to simply stop equating maturity with rack size is the toughest battle for me and area hunters.
I have to diagree with the the statement that most mature bucks will never break 130. We have 3 year old deer that are consistantly over 130. Our 5 year old deer seldom if ever have racks less than 130. We also have seen little boddied old deer and big boddied young deer. We don't practice QDM. We practice letting them grow up, and try to maintain a balanced herd, because we like to shoot above average bucks for our area...
Never said most...state "some". I agree with you, but some bucks just simply don't have the genes to be 130 at 3 1/2.
