They don't hold anyone hostage, LOL From what I can tell states have done a pretty lousy job at the bargaining table. We got the same cuts here in MI last year with out all the fan far. We up the % teachers pay to their retirement.
Everyone's ethics differ, that is why I was asking a black and white question involving their potentially lawful/unlawful acts.
My wife has been a public school teacher for coming on twelve years now. I have worked in the school system and now the county government for the same amount of time. Neither one of us have had a raise or cost of living increase in three years. WE completely understand the state of the economy and are happy to have a job. As a county employee we lost our investment options this year and are close to having to pay in much more to our retirement if the VA legislature has anything to do with it. Again, we understand and accept that we just have to deal with it and move on. The school system seems to have a lot more pull that the county government workers around here, but neither side has made any waves since our economy crashed. They are just plugging away.
This is not a dictatorship, This is America, works both ways. It's a right in this country to seek representation, not a luxury! Take away the right for collective bargaining and "We the People" are the ones that are being held hostage. I'm pretty sure the good people of Wisconsin had no idea the Koch Industries sponsored Americans for Prosperty Tea Bagging Terd was going to take a 120 million dollar surpluse and turn it in to a Deposit in less than 2 months, then have the gall to try and force a bill through in less than a week on the backs of the working middle class. Sounds like this is stright off one of the pages of the Heritage Foundiation website, another Koch Industries sponsored Corporate think tank group. Since you have never worked in a plant, coal mines, metal foundry or any where else that needed a union to help enforce safety standards, I'll file this with the rest of the "don't have a clue" posts.
So let me get this straight - because I don't personally have experience working in one of these jobs then I can't possibly understand anything about how unions, workplace safety, politics, wages or the free market can, do or should operate? Come on now. Secondly, the matter in question in this particular case is in regards to public sector jobs that are paid for in taxpayer dollars. None of your examples include public sector jobs, which are an entirely different animal than private sector jobs, union or not. You are correct that you have the right to seek representation in the workplace. However, it is not a right in how much power than representitive body (i.e. the unions) can have in dictating wages or benefits. That's the heart of this debate - the collective bargaining powers of the unions. The government of Wisconsin is finally taking a stand and saying enough is enough, and they want the balance of power shifted back to the taxpayers and not the unions. When it comes to workplace safety and enforcing those policies and laws there are plenty of other options out there other than unions. Hell, there's entire branches of government that are dedicated to this. But I digress, these particular cases are private sector jobs and an entirely different subject.
If States would sit down, go over the buget with all their unions and state here's the deal. This is where we are and this is what we a spend, and this is what we can do. I am willing to bet issues would get resolved. What do we get? A Gov telling people he is going to call the national guard, Deomcrats running away. I wonder if they ever just sat down and talk like adults what would happen.
Makes sense. So, it's back to the fundamental ideological difference of opinion some of us have with one another. Some feel it's perfectly fine for govt to take from one to give to another. They actually wonder why this isn't readily/widely accepted. Probably because they're on the receiving end of that transaction.
Today he cannot say no? Really? All he has to do is so no and veto the thing. If the state cannot pay any bill this is what he or any Gov should do.
There is no giving, it's a Job the workers earned it. It's called employment. States will take from you and me and give the money to someone. Weather it's a state worker or a private company.
So tell me, Gary.....in states like Wisc. and NJ (among others, I'm sure) are the states not having to take from the taxpayers to fund union promises to its' members? Let me ask again....are the unions self-sufficient? I'm quite tired of people legislating; voting in or extorting wages for themselves when they ave no financial stake. Fire 'em all. Let's hire some teachers that will work for a fair wage/package. Plenty of people out of work, currently. BTW...."Fair" = what the market will bear.
Jeff they signed a deal, the State signed a deal. It's a contract, what if it was a deal with a private company they signed. Should the state be able back out? What about dealing with private companies I am sure states(Repblicans for sure) and Gov are honest about those dealings All Wis Gov has to do is say no to a contract if Wis cannot pay for it. If the Gov gets shut down, so be it. IMO we need more of Gov to veto bills states do not have the money for. Is it that hard to say no? From someone who would last about a day as a teacher BTW I'd last a half a day.
When the contract was signed, it probably made sense. Times were good. State budgets could handle it. Things change. Let's look at it this way...... You sign on at your comapny for $80K/yr. That's super. The economy takes a downturn, and your employer says "we have 2 choices": 1. We can agree on a reduced salary. 2. You can hold a hard line, and I'll terminate you. And, BTW.....this holding me hostage while you make your decision is something I'm not going to put up with any more. Insert "State of Wisc." and "Unions" in there. Pretty much nail it?
BTW they all ready agreed to option 1. So no you missed it. Can any state Gov just say no? Is it that hard? Christ has done it for certain things and he was right, Synder is doing it here in MI. Really not that hard.
Like I said..... Still think I missed something? Isn't the State of Wisc. saying they're not gonna put up with being held hostage any more?
LOL, sure lets believe Gov, he's a truthful Politicans never lie or stretch the truth Can the state say no today to a deal? If he had a proposal that stated this is what we can pay, and the union told him to shove it, he is 100% correct to shut it down. I would support Synder if he did so here in MI.
Did you answer my question? Or, did you just say...."No matter what you hear, the state can't be believed"?
The State is TRYING to say no, but the Democrats all fled for asylum here in IL so they can't hold a vote!
No what I said was Can the state say no today to a deal? Politicians tend to exagrated a bit on both sides, I don't believe any of them on both sides. I agree with his spending cuts, same thing we did here, without all the BS.
