So when is it? The chase phase in late october (as the vast majority call it), the transition time from peeling velvet to the chasing phase where they break up from bachelor groups, start sparring, start moving more, build up their necks rubbing, etc. I used to see the last week of october as the pre rut when the bucks were out cruising for the first signs of hot does big time. I now see how that is somewhat flawed thinking, as that is basically just the first stage of the rut. I now see how the last week of september through the majority of october is the true pre rut. D&DH tv show elaborated on this last week and opened my eyes to it. So what time period do you define as the "pre rut"?
It depends on area, I know the mature bucks are out crusing around October 20th here, so i would peg it as any time before that.
What I always see, and don't understand is why bowhunters define their "pre rut, "rut", "post rut" by their bucks. The does control it all. I define it all by the does. The bucks are just biding their time. Pre rut, prior to does coming into estrous. Rut, when does are coming into estrous. Peak rut, when the majority of does are in estrous. Post rut...obvious. A buck would "rut" if a doe was in estrous in June! :p
Around the last week of October I begin seeing bucks cruising. Sometime around October 25th or so is when they begin showing themselves a little more each day where I hunt.
Respectfully disagree. Bucks become way more agressive as the Rut approaches. Testosterone (sp?) bulids, and behaviors change 180 compared to a buck in June. This takes place well before a doe even comes in, and builds throughout the rut. Programed by nature.
Great question TEmbry.. really. I wish more people would try to understand the rut and it's "definitions" too. Would make understanding any article one read more eye-opening. For myself.. personally.. I don't call any period the pre-rut.. since I think its rather dumb to break down the entire season into just 3 periods.. a pre.. a rut.. and a post. It seems when anyone gets that mindset.. they try to hunt by it accordingly and always end up shooting themselves in the foot. I look at it more in phases that last about 7-15 days (starting from the first day of the season).. and hunt that phase accordingly. They include a scraping phase.. a chase phase.. a seek phase.. a social phase.. etc etc etc. I think Rob was very accurate in saying that the "rut" only matters to the buck who's actually doing it.. but it doesn't mean its time to start rut tactics necessarily. I would totally agree. I believe that if it was broken down more by biologists.. it would greatly help hunters by just the suggestion of the phase they may be in at any given time.. by simply calling the pre-rut the time period from the opener to the actual rut you are mis-informing the general public on what the deer are doing.. behaviorly. At least.. this is the way I see it. Of course.. this probably just confused the Q even more.
I think its because you can judge the stage of the rut easier by the bucks changing behavior rather than the does. Yes the does control the rut, but the bucks react to it and give more signs as to what stage it is. Unless you run down your stand when you see a doe and take a sniff of ..... well nevermind.
I agree, bucks give the visual and thus what we gauge these time periods on. Other than your suggestion of giving them a sniff, :p You actually can judge a doe to some degree and that is by watching their tarsal glands. The blacker, the better, at least if she's around your treestand. Once a doe is bred, she will lick her tarsal glands clean. (From what I understand).
Oh I agree with what your saying except, you can bet your ass in a hand bag that if a doe "happened" to come into estrous in June, a buck will do hoops to breed her, as you say, Programed by nature. Obviously this doesn't happen unless it's a freak of nature in a very overpopulated deer herd. Wouldn't you agree however that the reason bucks do what they do is because of the does. Bucks are just biding their time waiting. Hypothetically if your entire doe pop. came into estrous in Sept, wouldn't your bucks do the same thing then? The does control the rut. The "rut" as defined is the time period when the maturity of your does are in estrous. It's not defined for your bucks being the most love struck.
Some great points here! I would think when the hormones start kicking in which would be the time the velvet starts to come lose and the bachelor groups break up that's when things begin to happen in the Bucks World but the following phases are dictated by the Does. I have seen Does bred in mid Oct so that kind of throws the date thing out the door to me. They bred when the Does are ready.
To me, the Pre-Rut is when the velvet comes off.. Rut is the time period in which defines the peek of the breeding phase Post Rut is the time in which the breeding phase starts to decline I have read and learned alot from Charles Alsheimer and his phases of the rut...Seeking, Chasing, Breeding Phases of the Rut, to me this more defines deer in general. However, the change of seasons and with the velvet coming off, no doubt will change the bucks behaviors and attitudes not to mention importance, or the lack there of, feeding over other seeking, chasing and breeding.
We all know bucks grow, harden and loose their antlers. If you want to define your "rut" with buck activity and actions, that's your decision to make. The "rut" as defined is when the majority of doe are in estrous (peak breeding season). Prerut then would be prior to this time. We all know that buck's testosterone levels increase with photoperiodism as nature dictates. Yes I consider this rutting behavior but not I don't define the seasons as such. There is a "rut", then there is the period of time before the rut, and after the rut. Prerut and post rut as well as a second rut, even a third rut. What bucks do during these times don't define the rut, it's just what they do. For deer hunters, particularly geared for buck hunting, many want to hypthothesis the prerut, rut and post rut by buck activity, which coincedentially is in direct correlatioin to the doe estrous period, or "rut". :D Also, bucks will scrape during August and Sept as well, but as testosterone levels increase, so does scraping activity. Bucks become frusterated until the does begin coming into estrous.
Hit the nail on the head in my opinion and Rob is right, if there is a doe in heat in March, June or Octember.. a buck will find her and breed her. It's relatively common knowledge and general rule that a buck's testosterone level and a doe's estrous level peaks around November 1st so sure in and around that time rutting activity is going to be the most frenzied (depending upon the day of the rutting moon). But at the end of the day, the does control it all and the bucks are just waiting for that sweet estrous smell to permeate the woods!
The Pre - Rut starts the moment a bucks antlers start to sprout from his head. It lasts until the first doe comes into heat. The Rut starts as soon as the first doe comes into heat and lasts until the last one is bred. The Post - Rut starts as soon as a buck sheds his antlers and lasts until the new antler starts to grow. There you go....................... 3 easy to understand phases. Now, just start hunting them. Depending on when your season opens, you may still be able to catch a buck on his summer feeding pattern. Once the bucks disperse from their bachelor groups you have to see which one or ones are still around. An important note here: Keep an eye out for the dispersed bucks during the rut. They will be back. Ok, now you have to figure out how to hunt him when he is going to, or, coming from his bed. If you don't know where any bucks are bedding, Keep An Eye On The Does! Watch does while they are going to feed in the evening. Try to find the food source and watch them there. Bucks will eventually start showing up. If that don't work, just guard the does bedding areas and wait for the bucks to start showing up there. They will be there. Still no buck? Now, as the ruts pace slows, you may have to hunt near an evening food source and wait for one to arrive. Better yet, crowd his bedding area if you know where it is. Still no buck? ..........................You're screwed for another season! I personally do not break down these phases to the Nth degree. I hunt the deer in my area and keep tabs on what they are doing. From there I make my plans on how to put myself in the best possible position to kill a good buck. You have to be there to know what's going on. It isn't like a switch being thrown declaring that all deer are in the chasing phase. The deer in your area dictate when that is going to happen. Just hunt them.
Jeff, none of what your asking was asked (at least to me) by the OP. I wasn't defining all your questions, I was answering the question at hand and what the Pre Rut or how I determined that time period. Start a thread about your questions and the (my) answers would be quite different. The "rut" is all about does estrous cycles. How to hunt bucks during bow seasons and these cycles, well to me is two different topics.
I have always heard a buck was unable to breed until his velvet dried up. Is this true or just a myth? There must some fact to it. Mother nature provides the best time for does to drop their fawns. Spring when all the plants are greening up and food and cover is plentiful. I don't think a buck would be capable of breeding a doe in the spring or summer. Also when a buck is sterile or gets his testicles damaged, he does not shed his velvet. Put out some doe in heat scent tomorrow and set up a camera and see what the bucks do. My thinking would be nothing.
I guess my title was fitting, there certainly is quite the discrepancy. I am just frustrated that until this year, I had no access to areas deer use outside of the rut. This year, I have no excuse to not get on a buck in September or October, just up to me to get the job done.
Pre rut by definition is "the period in which bucks shift their main attention from feeding to finding that "perfect" (receptive) doe". During this period is when bucks have less tolerance towards other bucks. As I have mentioned, I believe, as with some scientific research that this period begins once the velvet is shed. I see both sides...does do control the movement of bucks because until the "ok" is given by mother nature, bucks will focus on breeding.
