Hooker, I enjoy having a debate with you. Your rational and clearly state your opinions, even though our opinions generally differ we can still enjoy a decent debate without disliking each other(well, at least I don't dislike you, no idea about the other side of the coin).
I think the thing being missed by some is that smoking pot alone or in the confinement of your own home, in itself, does no more harm than drinking a beer in the same scenario. Just about ANYTHING we put into our bodies could potentially cause us harm, but that decision in itself doesn't necessarily mean another bad decision will come out of it AND it should be our own personal choice as to what we put into our body. It's the same thing as allowing someone to own a gun, just because they own a gun doesn't mean they wll go out and shoot people. Likewise, just because someone smokes pot doesn't mean they will go get in the car and wreck into people. Likewise, if you vote for freedom, we the people win every time. Just because you are voting or in favor of legalizing weed does not mean you smoke weed or condone the behavior, but that's what being libertarian is all about. I used to be a hardcore conservative and staunch republican supporter and it wasn't until I really read the Constitution and understood freedom that I realized that I was actually a libertarian.
But as I said, the state Gs are too greedy for that. They see the enormous profit to be reaped from the taxation, and with that comes even MORE regulation. They don't care that a burgeoning black market lies just under the surface of the legal trade, as long as Caesar gets his. Banning a commodity is relatively easy. The product either is or is not illegal. Cops find it, they confiscate it and put you in jail. Not a ton of resources go into that when compared to regulating a product. Regulation, on the other hand, requires much more government oversight and allocation of resources. From an administrative standpoint, weed is nearly impossible to regulate. It grows naturally in various indoor/outdoor environments, you don't need any sort of real training to produce it, and other than seeds, water, and (if indoors) light, it's very cheap to grow and harvest. Once processed, it is impossible to tell the difference between illicit weed and "legit" weed. And as anyone who looks into this sort of thing knows, tax stamps are about the easiest thing to counterfeit ever. The only way to effectively mitigate illicit trade in such a product is to take away nearly all profit incentive from all parties- the State included. In other words, make possession of "personal use" amounts completely legal. Grant low-cost licenses to growers with the understanding that they are subject to inspection at any time; and they are forbidden from growing over certain amounts of plants at any given time, with very stiff penalties for violating said standards. Anyone without a license found to possess anything over "personal use" amounts would be subject to stiff penalties/jail. Anyone found selling the product would be subject to the same. Other than the licensing fees, the G would not receive any money (from taxation.) The growers would be doing so with the knowledge that they aren't going to make any money off of the crop, therefore large-scale operations would cease to exist. What would remain are guys looking to do little home-grown operations and share/swap their harvest like neighbors used to do with garden veggies and stuff. Like I said, if someone wants to sit at home and blaze away their night on occasion, I don't see much harm in that as long as you can still be a productive member of society. Just don't do it whilst on the government teat, stay off the roads, and quit giving your money to Mexican organizations who's favorite past time is playing futbol with people's heads. Grow your own, or find a buddy who does and doesn't mind sharing. Of course this is over simplified, but the premise remains the same. Legalized but heavily regulated is bad for everyone except the State and narco-terrorists.
Other than being legal to grow in one home, there are penalties in place right now for selling consuming or manufacturing weed but it doesn't stop much. Penalties may not be so stiff, but it would require huge oversight which costs money for people to randomly inspect homes. There will always be those who are too lazy to make their own so there will always be a market, and there will be those who want to make money thereby get others to manufacture lots of weed. I can grow my own tomatoes, but I simply choose to buy them. Just my theory. Dnoodles not trying to degrade or be condescending like I come off as, what's your background and what do you do in life? Just trying to see where your perspective is coming from.
That's exactly my point. See my above post...I would like to believe that we could trust legislators to get this right; but I'm intelligent enough to know that the G will screw it up. I can be libertarian in thought but pragmatic in practice. As the "legalization" trend currently stands, it is over-regulated, over-taxed, and myopically ill-conceived. All they (legislators) care about is tax revenue and creating more brain-dead subjects to rule over. I'd rather see it banned outright than heavily regulated. I don't see any libertarian hypocrisy in that. A ban is one law. Regulation is thousands.
I agree with your points. The systems in WA and CO are not perfect. But it is a start in the right direction. Over restricted liquor laws are being overturned and changed all the time.
so far as I know, in no state is it legal to grow/consume your own tax-free mary jane. (Although I remember at one point hearing Alaska and maybe Hawaii were/are exceptions.) Not any more than are already being spent, and offset slightly by the license fees. Yes, but if you were presented with the choice to grow your own tomatoes or be sent to jail for buying them, wouldn't you grow your own, or find someone nearby who grows too many to use personally and swap some cucumbers or other "free" commodity for them? haven't you seen my avatar? I'm a paramilitary panda. It's a pretty exclusive fraternity. Most pandas can't even figure out how to reproduce much less wield twin Micro Uzis.
Man I want some Chocolate brownies Right Now, getting hungry, hungry, hungry and we are 24 ta 25 pages deep...
Good point on tomatoes. But I'd disagree on funding. You're going to make it illegal, a law, to grow more than X amount and distribute. You're going to need enforcement on that, people to do random checks somehow without infrgining on privacy and all that as there would undoubtedly be a rise in pot growing. There will definitely be those who will take advantage of the system, since it is in their own home you can't just have people calling in suspicious neighbors and doing checks, that would bring all these 4th amendment people out in fury. It would also be like a nazi state at that point or similar to other evik empires. You can't just create a law and not enforce it(which in my opinion with your plan, it won't be enforced with little funding compared to amount of people growing). I just don't see this as being pragmatic. I think you have this general optimistic goodwill of people on this while i hold a more pessimistic view on how people would act
I hate to keep going on about this but take for example the atf who goes after the moon shiners. These are Americans doing this to skirt the law even though it's legal to manufacture it in your own home. They still want the money, if drug cartels see that weed can be grown in homes, I'd think they'd jump on that
Drag the horse up into the back pasture, it has been nearly rode ta death and has worked up a pretty thick lather.
Is pot legal now in Washington? Kidding of course. I'm just surprised some people have such strong opinions about it.
Right? He starts this thread asking for thoughts now he's just making fun of the people having a discussion.
