I hear what you are saying with quality and being willing to pay for better quality and wanting the choice. However moving operations to another location does not always translate to loss or lack of quality. Things can be of a poor quality regardless of location. Take cars for example, the highest quality cars are NOT built in the US. In fact, some of the poorest quality items available to consumers are made here in the US. I truly do not believe that Polaris (since they are the origin of this thread) will lose quality by moving operations to Mexico. Quality is something that is set by the leaders of the company and translated to nearly every employee regardless of the boundaries within which they produce. Saying that location dictates the level of quality is something that only a fool would do, to think that they produce a better product because they build it in the US. Oh, wait that is exactly what the US Auto industry did, oops that went well. Moving to Mexico may not be so that Polaris can gain more profit, but so that they can KEEP profitability long term? What if they kept their ATV operations in Wi? What if the cost drove them out of business due to the high cost of labor and taxes and diminished value of investment? They go out of business and the town then does what? Are workers willing to take less pay to keep their job? Not many, as we have seen with the UAW. This thread seems more directed at the jobs that have been "lost" by one company looking out for their best interest long term, and being ridiculed and berated for it. Yet who here would berate one of the employees there for leaving for a better job? Eric? Germ? Would you? So why the double standard? Why does a company owe it to society and to the employees but not the other way around?
What I do get is the book and what its meaning is. I get who Brokaw is honoring and the stories that he tells. Some stories I have heard first hand from other people that lived that life as well . I get that there were many great people of the generations of yesteryear. As well as some from more recent times. Tom Brokaw did a wonderful job writing that book, but he was selling a book! What I do not get is that there are those that think that the world can go on with out change, without shifting of economies and powers. What I do not get is the way that some pronounce that we should all be in this together or that things are better if we are not being self centered, then live a double standard when it come to what they want or will do. What I do not get is the closed minded thinking that believes that everything is best if we make no changes and live in those times. I have read more in 20 years than most people that you know will read in a lifetime, using a single book to make a point is more than likely not a favorable way to win a debate.
Again I am not using a book and you still don't get it. If you have read so much you would know that generation went through more change than any before them. They embrace change, not my point. Point is they believe in America not the idea, but the people. We simple do not believe in our people any more. We sell them out so a line on excel spread sheets looks better, we cut corners to get oil out of the ground quicker and cheaper, and then destroy entire region in that process. I do agree with many of your points, but I am a people person. I believe in the people of America and I will always put them first.
Because they sell their products HERE, hey sell those ATV in Mexico and let us see how profitable they are. If they want to build a plant in France and sell them in France, have at it.
Your right Mad that not everything made here Is good stuff but from my experiences In the agriculture business the parts and stuff made here In the US Is of much better quality then the cheap stuff made In cheap labor country's. I've paid very close attention over the years of the parts I've had to buy for my milk truck and farm machinery. It seems when parts are made In these cheap labor country's they don't last nearly as long. Whenever I buy something business or farm related from the parts stores I sometimes cringe when I see It's made In cheap labor country's. This stuff Isn't always cheaply made but more so then not It Is. With the type of business I'm In I have to take whats available to me at the time being my milk truck Is on the road 17 hours a day so many of the times I can't always be picky on what brand parts I buy. Good post's Germ! Anyone see that there's a strike going on over In China now? Maybe It would be a great thing If every country did this so these US company's wouldn't jump ship to other cheap labor company's.
They sell those ATV's all over the western hemi-sphere. The markets of central and south America are growing for them.
You are using a book, in fact you gave a direct title twice! I disagree about that generation, think of those that literally risked their lives and gave up everything for an attempt to cross the Atlantic. Think of those that fought the British and risked themselves and their families to participate in the creation of a new nation. Those that wrote and fought and died for the U.S. Constitution. Consider the few men that sat at a table and drafted a letter to the King of England telling him that you would no longer serve his needs or his country, those men were great. To be Benjamin Franklin, going in person to the British Parliament and presenting the demands of the colonies. That is greatness. Brokaw's book only points out a few, and those that he had the chance to either talk to or interview personally, or those that shaped a short period in American History. Were they great, hell yeah, just not the only great ones and not exclusively deserving of the title "Greatest". I understand your idea that the people are being sold out for the spreadsheet, but again I ask, is this not a two way street? Should the community and the employees hold the company in high regard? Because they do not. We over tax businesses and employees have decided that the company is the one that owes them. Employees have decided that the company is expendable, or that if they are not happy in the moment they will leave or better yet go on strike. Yet when it is in the best interest of the company to move, "oh, they are screwing the employee". It is the Union Mentality that has driven the wedge between the corporations and the employees. It is the high cost of employment, the exceptionally high tax burden, and the low investment value that drives companies away. Have you ever considered the comments that you have made about Corporate America? What gives you the right to ***** and complain about them and they not act the same way? The only thing I do not get here is that to you (and others) do not believe that the relationship between employer and employee is a two way street. I asked a couple questions before, have you given them any thought?
When cheap labor ends in China it will move to....there are plenty of nations that would love to have the business. Cheap labor equals inexpensive consumer goods. I know very well too about some goods, take mining equipment for example. Holy cow, that industry aint doin too bad.
It is not a two way street for sure in Corp. America. It's not a two way street when Big business can bankrupt America and get bailed out, it's not a two way street when an oil company can dump 100,000 gallon of oil in the gulf and still do business with US Govement(BP has Billions in contracts with US Goverment). Mad go out to a river and start dumping oil in it and see what happens to you. Be sure to state you will clean it up. I don't get tax break to go to another job, I don't get tax money to move to another state, nor do I get a break like H1 workers do who are still being brought in to this country as Americans remain bankrupt. Companies get away with hiring illegal workers, breaking laws and many other things. So it truly is not a two way street nor will it ever be a two way street. The exact reason I work for small business owners and small business. Workers have a right to work where they want, companies have a right to employ who they want, but if you think companies play fair, well I laugh out loud. Is it a two way street, no it is not, nor will it ever be two way street. Yes our forefathers and many others before did great things, No I was not refering to the book, but the people. I refer to them as the Greatest because IMO they are, some may think one's you mention are, last time i check we all were entitiled to opinion. Those who took part in almost bankrupting America and the world walked away with millions, the people working walk away from their homes. GM is still running, although I am glad they are still running, in reality they should be out of buisiness. Many who worked for GM, now have no jobs, and no where to go. Yes I just changed Jobs, but my money stays here in America, when companies change locations they take that money out of a local enconomy and our country. Then turn around and sell the product here for more profit. Even if i never read Tom's B book about my Grandfather's Generation, IMO they still would be the greatest, not because of WWII, technical advances, or the wealth and good they help bring to all of us. It's because they knew how to sacrifice for the greater good of their community and families. As I sit here looking at my two kids, I know one thing for sure, they have enough money to go to college, because my Grandparents took care of all their Grandchildren. They could have bought and over size house when he retired, big cars, and taken long vacations, but they choose to take care of their families. Polaris had 600 people who worked for them, some my have had better offers, but stayed with Polaris. Polaris had a choice to help 600 workers of "their Family" I bet they used those buzz words at Polaris, and they choose to move. How that is a two way street is beyond me, Polaris leaves them without a job, the local enconomy takes a huge hit, and Polaris makes more money. When a worker leaves a company the company may hire someone else, or the person leaving stays in the local enonomy with no hit to it. IMO that is not a two way street.
Mad I respect your position and your opinion on this subject, I have always enjoyed a good debate. I would sit down and have a beer with you and debate this very topic, as long as the beer was domestic
You know, I disagree with most everything you has said on the subject. I have my feelings and opinions, and we do not see eye to eye. But we do see that it is not a two way street and it seems as though we do see each side. The reality is we do not agree on WHY the two way street does not exist? Lets not debate the oil spill, I am with you on this one. I think that BP can and should do more. I also think that there are unavoidable accidents, but it is how they handle them that will define them. Right now, that is not favorable. A drink any time!
Here is one reason, if I go in and quit a Job, just head into the bosses office and say, "I quit" with a 2 week notice I am labled a "Bad Employee", even though I it may have been in the best interest for me. A company (mainly bigger ones) can come in and fire you without notice and it is deemed "planning for the future" and their stock goes up. My main beef is this, if you are going to prosper from the people of America, you need to invest and contribute to America. I believe the same is true for other countries as well. GM has plants in China, and they sell cars in China. If any company went to Mexico and stated they are building product X and selling product X in Mexico, I am all for it. I understand we have to import products, we have been do so for 500+ years, and I think we should expand on import and export of products and services. I give total props to companies like Honda, Toy and others who sell products here in America and invest and build plants here in America. A company in a local town can move out and destroy that economy, this has happen in the past, industry fails, new Tech takes over and creates more jobs. Here is the differents today, those jobs are not being destroyed by a new Tech, they are being moved and there is nothing to take their place. It would be like State of MI, lets say we all spent our money in Canada, we would destroy the MI economy. That is what happing right now, but it's just a little piece at a time. Where I think it is a two way street is on the consumer side is of you have a company X making a product in your local enconomy you damn sure better buy it. This is a huge issues also IMO, it comes down to one word, GREED. Some consumers do not realize not buying product X will hurt them on the long run. IMO consumers bear some blame also. Companies have a bigger street and IMO have a moral obligation to the consumers who buy their products in what ever country they are selling them. Just think about past and the things companies did, when they made a move, it was better for them, but it also was better for America. It truly was a two way street. Now it's all about what is better for me. AZ New Mexico Calif Three states I bet would have loved to have a Polaris plant.
