I didn't mean it as a North South thing. I was just stating what most down here think. I could care less where someone is from....lol. Hope you didn't take like that....lol Sent from my XT830C
It wasn’t directed at you.But many people do still feel its north vs south I think.And that is one part of the confederate flag.Southern Pride.I’m saying forget the Southern pride and direct that energy towards American Pride.
Ha, one nation under god, but there's a lot of northerners that look down at people in the south. Think they are all backwards rednecks.
I am a proud southerner with ancestors here dating back to well before the Civil War and many fought for the Confederacy, although they were much too poor to be slave owners, so I do have pride in seeing the Confederate flag respectfully displayed. I personally do not own or fly the flag in any fashion though because 99% of the people I see in my area that do are not the kind of people I want to appear to share common ground with.
I could understand if the initial meaning of the flag perpetuated hate or racism but that's just not the case. Just because some people are ignorant and fly it for those reasons doesn't mean those who fly it for the initial meaning should have to take it down.
growing up in the south the flag to me was never about race it was about a strong southern symbol that honestly I didn't understand the race thing behind it because to me it was always just a north and south thing. Still today when you go to certain places they sell the flag because of the southern heritage. I just think certain race groups blew it out because they used the flag to spark race wars and then the flag became a symbol of hate instead of southern pride. I'm proud to be a southern boy but I surely don't need a flag to say I'm from the south all I have to do is open my mouth and you will know. The way I look at it, its just a flag take it how ever you want to take it, but the flag never hurt anyone the people who honored it wrong just gave it a bad name. Racial hate doesn't need a flag to get fueled.
I would say psychologically southerners tend to be more independent and want less government intrusion into their lives than northerners historically have accepted. There is a certain pride they have with seccession, not because of racism but more simply independence from what some feel is an oppressive government. I think that the flag may represent an historical period when that oppression was attempted to be overthrown. Now I don't condone dividing the states as the civil war came close to doing but it is unmistakable that there are prides and prejudices in every area/region of the country. Most of us feel a pride if we live in a certain area, support a certain sports team, etc. We identify with certain perceived attributes. We condemn perceived attributes from other regions/areas. Southerners pride themselves for their hospitality and a more laid back attitude and those are attributes that are prevalent there. Northerners though may pride themselves on being a bit more driven and have a more direct way of expressing themselves. Northerners though seem to look down upon southerners as backwards, uneducated hicks that can't speak in multi-syllable words, while southerners often say northerners lack any tact while speaking and are considered rude and unfriendly. Differences in every region/state/county and even city but that does not mean they do not consider themselves Americans. Like a family we can bicker and fight among ourselves but when there is a threat to the family we always circle the wagons and become a united front. I think the same thing will happen with these atrocious acts, as a nation we can come together and be united against this hateful line of thinking. Personally I don't think the confederate flag has anything to do with the hate these people feel in their heart, with or without that flag they would still feel the same way.
Leaving the racial aspect out of it, I still don't understand why a government building, or anyone for that matter, would wave around a flag that says, to me anyways, "Hey, we damn near pulled off the most egregious and deadly act of treason this nation has ever known! Woo-Hoo!.......but, we lost"
The flag needs to be removed. That being said, have any of you ever studied the congressional voting records proceeding the civil war? The Northern states literally used then abused blacks after the Civil War. Their true colors shown bright after they won the war for economic gain. Lets make NO mistake about it, the war was over money and dominance.
While I think the flag is not meant to convey a message of racism, I feel it is ignorant to say most people proudly showcasing it don't know the meaning behind it. For me, I would say it's more like 99% of the young kids proudly displaying it do so in a manner to be racist. They are undoubtedly making a statement. Being from a smaller town just south of Stl, the Mike Brown incident has caused a lot of local uproar from both whites and blacks. The young and dumb white hoosier community has taken their opportunity to run it in the black communities face as a means of battling the protests/riots. I can remember seeing posts on facebook of kids displaying the flag on their truck driving through Ferguson. As others have said, I can see where some would still have a strong sense of pride in their Southern heritage; but i feel like those people aren't the ones who feel the need to display a flag. I couldn't agree more with the post about what the Civil War was really over. The North was in it for power, and they got it. I can see why there would still be a strong distaste from the southern community, and I don't feel like that part stems from racism. Racism is very prevalent here, but it isn't just the white community who participates.
The founding fathers, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Hancock, etc. etc. actually did pull off one of the biggest acts of treason from a historical basis. The big difference is that they won and the USA was born, if the CSA had been successful the soluthern states may be celebrating Independance Day other the the 4th of July. Less than 100 years after the formation of this country the civil war occurred with, historically speaking, a heritage of overthrowing oppressive government and government where you don't feel that you have fair representation for your issues. What northerners called treason southerners call a failed attempt to get their voices heard and issues resolved on a more fair basis. Two completely different perspectives on the same thing.
At the risk of being contentious, I'll point out that the Civil War was about slavery. They teach that in the schools here, but they don't explain why. You have to research that for yourself. Here's why it was about slavery. Although many people in the Northern states owned slaves, there was still a general feeling that it was wrong. The Northern states set about banning it within their borders, one at a time, but slave ownership was grandfathered in. In other words, you could keep your slaves, but you couldn't acquire any more. Under the Constitution, the federal government had no authority to ban slavery in the Southern states. But the federal government does control customs, and right after the turn of the century, in 1807 in fact, the further import of slaves was banned. The slaves you need for farm work are young male slaves. You could breed slaves, but you wind up with 50/50 males and females and you have to feed and shelter the children until they are old enough to work. And females can't do as much work as males. That whole process would be very uneconomical. So what's the solution? Simple. You end federal control over the ports so that you can continue to import slaves, transported by Northern ship owners, by the way. In order to do that you have to form a country separate from the United States. So that's what the Southern states did. After forming the CSA, they started a war of secession, and lost. Now as far as the flag is concerned, I think some guys, who may not even be from the South, show it as a sign of "I'm a redneck" sort of thing, like the guys who wear camo to the grocery store. Okay, fine. If it's worn as a sign of attachment to "Southern Culture," I find that a bit disturbing. "Southern Culture" generated laws which would have barred marriage between my husband and me until 1967. There were other gross laws as well. Although the laws segregating the races didn't always affect Mongolians, some of them did. On the other hand, I think that kind of attitude may be more common among older Southerners, as opposed to younger ones. I had a conversation with a couple of my students earlier this year where this topic came up. They were from Georgia and were surprised that there had actually been laws barring mixed race marriages. Although, they admitted that many people "down home" feel that it just isn't right. Of course, there are people here in Michigan who feel it isn't right also. I'm one who feels that it's time to get rid of that flag. It symbolizes a part of American culture of which we should be a little ashamed. Of course, if someone wants to put one on his truck as a way of saying, "I'm a redneck," I can understand that.
Sachiko broke down the Civil War to a "T" in a very short time frame...was money and power involved yes...without creating a new nation the wealth and power of the southern states were going to be drastically severed due to the federal laws regarding the ports and shipping in of any new slaves. Either way though, this is becoming a debate of whether or not the flag is a symbol of hate....that my friends is a personal thing, not swayed by others but by ones own personal feelings. I personally don't like the flag for what it represents (whether original or not...although I recommend research on the flags of the confederacy to anyone) and it's connection to "racial divide". Due to that I don't feel it deserves to be on governmental ground, but in museums and perhaps cemetaries as well.
BJE80, I got to thinking about your post last night while on Facebook. Seeing the pics of people stomping the American Flag. It just made me think that some folks have no pride at all. Whether it be American, Southern, Northern....wherever your from....lol. Sent from my XT830C
No doubt. We have also turned into a society of emotional midgets. Everybody gets offended by everything and nobody seems to have a backbone any more.
