This was posted in MI forum, what do you think post AR in PA. Minn hunters take notice because I bet you guys are next for a drastic change in regs. Yes AR for Minn may happen.
Certainly NOTHING like I experienced. Yes the 1st couple years (and maybe still now) guys were shooting every buck and ground checking it. That doesn't seem to happen much anymore. One of the BIGGEST things people here don't understand was that AR's and HERD REDUCTION were 2 separate things. They wanted less deer in almost every part of the state because the habitat was being over browsed badly. Yes in many places there are far fewer deer, but that was what was supposed to happen, we had an over inflated population. I have YET to see an old illegal buck since the AR's have been instituted, but those who hate them seem several a season. I'm glad 2 of the 3 quit, too bad it wasn't all of them. Prior to AR's a giant buck was a 100" 2 year old & those were FEW & far between. Now its a whole new world. 2 year olds barely garnish attention in many places. I've said it before, PA hunters(in general) are idiots. They needed over inflated herds & 10 million guys pushing the deer around in order to kill one. Now that there are less deer and in some places less hunters as a result, they are helpless to find one.
Honestly, I think it's a very agenda oriented post. I cannot disagree that his gamelands where probably pounded with antlerless tags. HR took place and as far as I'm concerned, it was too vast. It needed to be more micromanaged. He's obviously hunting the western part of PA where it was 4 points to one side making six points off limits. Unfortunately there is a downfall to AR. A 6 year old 6 point would not be legal there and it would be impossible to put an age restriction or allowance on the herd. Most cannot even tell a button from a doe let alone a 1.5 from a 5.5. When I started hunting at age 12, I didn't see a deer in the woods until I was 15. I'm still hunting so that argument is mute to me. It's very area oriented and it's easy to blanket blame the PGC for the HR. Some areas still hold too many deer, others there are none or very little but again, same held true 30 years ago when deer were suppose to be everywhere. I didn't see a deer to shoot at for 3 years. Sadly, AR had nothing to do with the doe running wounded, slob hunters abound in our PA woods, thus the case of the small bucks found but in reality, were they mistaken kills or slob hunters slinging lead and not following up on their shots. Happens regardless of AR or HR. Agreed with his last statement, they definitely need tweaked as we move forward and education is the biggest thing that needs addressed.
I have always liked AR. It gives the bucks a chance to get a bit older. Those deer should then be available to hunt the next season. There will always be a few that slip thru the cracks (mature 6 pointers) but I believe that is the minority. No system is perfect. The question is is AR improving hunting. I believe more bigger buck sightings will get hunters excited and bring them back. I agree that tweeking might help the new hunters. For instance a first deer exemption from AR. Another thing that could be done is a spread exemption for points. for example: 4 points on one side or 14" inside spread. I don't know of many 1 1/2 YO that would make 14". But if you see a 6 point as wide as the ears you could feel confidend to shoot. I think it's a win/win for trophy hunters and those that would shoot any buck. After a few years of AR there should be ample targets for both groups.
I call it whiners and winners, to many guys want to kill a buck any buck, now thats harder to do as it should have been. Some areas have been reduced past what I feel was necessary yet other are still over populated and always will be cause of limited access. the buck hunting is better than ever and gets better with each year. I love It.
I have seen alot of positive changes since the AR's. The major thing that I have noticed is less deer being lost. There were years (pre-AR) when I would find 15-20 deer on a single 300 acre farm that were lost in rifle season. Without AR's, people literally just shot at deer. The deer herd is definetly getting healthier.... some areas need the reduction slowed and others still need alot more. Bucks are definetly larger and more prevelant. The past two seasons, my "honey hole" property has dropped off a good bit, but everywhere else around is getting better. I believe my honey hole property has more to do with it being timbered 2 years ago. As far as points go.... I have never really had this problem. I have always saw more 7-8 points than any other bucks.
I agree that in the first couple years I found more than a few fork-horns dead in the woods. For some reason in the area I hunt, you cannot assume Brow tines. Many bucks just don't have them. The numbers are way down. It used to be nothing to see 80+ deer on opening day. Now it's down to the lower 20's. I've read arguments about doe buck ratio on here and seen some justification math done. But back then I bet it was easily 8 or more :1 The does took a beating in the past 7-8 years. It's more in check now. I see more and better bucks and am happy with AR.
I have seen an increase of the quality of bucks in the woods as well at the local taxidermy's. as far as wounded does and game lands getting pounded with Anterless tags, that has not a whole lot of credit data supporting it, but wounded deer has to do more with those who are hunting and not regulations. Tip #1 - If you are not seeing deer there may be a reason ? Food source, water, intrusion Tip #2 - If you see a small buck shot to lay, let alone 3, report it ! Tip #3 - Huge 6 point ? Sort of like saying BIG Jake.....it will happen but the benefits of AR far out weigh the negatives.
I JUST got done hanging out in an area that has, to me, seen one of the LARGEST changes in deer density over the past ten years...my cabin. It's 1200 acres of mountaneous ground in northen WMU 2G. It's comprised of 25 members, most of whom hunt weekends only (although our archery crowd has grown) if that. At our work day this weekend, my dad and I along with another member drove from one end of the club to another, and saw one deer. All along the other member kept complaining about how things aren't like the old days when it was normal to see "80 tails" even "during midday." Back at the other cabin, this topic would come up on occasion, and most members shared the same sentiments. Many don't hunt near as much due to the lack of deer. We have a very diverse membership, and an active farming committee. We plant soybeans, clover, sorghum, turnips, wheat, etc but to little avail come fall. My stance is this. Our cabin is experiencing what it's experiencing for a few reasons that make it unique in the grand scheme of ARs and HR in PA. Obviously, the numbers the members of remincising about is WAY too high for the carrying capacity of the land. Sure it's cool to see 50-60 deer on a daily drive, but in that habitat (heck, in MOST habitat), that's WAY too much. Years after HR, we have seen the results. Maybe a bit too much (like Rob stated, it needs to be micromanaged a bit more), but none the less, the habitat is much better. Browse lines have dissapeared, average deer weight taken at our club has gone up about 10lbs, and every buck is bigger than what used to be the BIGGEST buck taken during the season. However, I also think the lack of sightings are due to many other things such as high pressure throughout the year (25 members using the club year round for recreational purposes puts pressure on deer, even on 1200 acres). Many guys don't practice much scent control, and are often hanging stands, moving stands, taking stands down, etc a week before the season starts. That's pressure. What few deer there are, are certainly going to be effected. Now, what I'm seeing in the southern portion of 2G where I hunt? Habitat is much different (more farmland, higher deer density prior and since HR and AR), but I'm quite happy with what I'm seeing. Older stands that produced at one time aren't always as productive, and I've had to adjust, but I think that's the key to why many in PA aren't happy. The unwillingness to change (find new lands, go further back away from the beaten path, put more boot time down, etc) is why many hunters believe PA hunting is ruined forever.
As many have stated that the AR has impacted the deer heard, i believe it has been a positive impact. I have seen more bucks that are legal, than in years past of seeing a buck in the woods. I have been hunting since age 15 and until i was 27 i had not killed a buck. I would see alot of does, but i wanted to see the bucks. Now i do see more bucks and still see alot of Does also. As Rob has stated about the "HR took place and as far as I'm concerned, it was too vast. It needed to be more micromanaged." Some area are in need of being tweeked. I have seen seveal deer left to the bears, yotes, coons, and oposseums and its a shame again as Rob has stated SLOB HUNTERS in PA. Alot of them here in Pa. Just to kill a BUCK. Go a little deeper or hunt alot smarter if you want that buck now, if a few drop out, good ridens more for me to pursue. Chris:D
