Discussion in 'Bowhunting Talk' started by Bowhunting.com Staff, Mar 7, 2017.
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I've always thought the hatred towards them was silly... "no good coyotes killing and eating the deer" when that's what we all do. How hypocritical is that. I do think it helps keep them in check a bit to kill a good number of them. They are survivors with no real natural enemies other than wolves, which have nowhere near the range of coyotes. It's when they start eating our pets and attacking small kids in neighborhoods that I have a problem with them. Still no hate though
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I think their is a flaw in the article and their line of thinking. The title says. Coyote Management, yet the study they are basing this off had nothing to do with management of Coyote, it was a comparison of with and without. We know that land can only support so many deer and other animals.
When coyote take out fawns, they are not selective. They are not taking the weak because all fawns are weak when they are young. They are not worrying about buck/doe ratio. Letting more fawns survive predators when young, results in the stronger animals making it and weaker becoming the food for predators later on.
Balance, everything in balance. If we are upsetting that balance (ie taking some deer, land for crops etc) then we have to even it up or things get out of control. "Normal" levels of predation are what is required to keep the herd pure. On that point we as a race are heading down hill we as a society are empowering the stupid to survive.
I personally have mixed feelings on this one. Although some of the TX studies (that are decades old, mind you) have shown no real support for coyote/predator management, some of the more recent studies have shown that fawn mortality by coyotes is as high as 80% in many areas. I know one of the farms I hunt has extremely high fawn mortality as I rarely see more than a handful of fawns/yearlings each year on a several hundred acre farm. There's no doubt that the lack of fawn recruitment has contributed to an overall decline in deer numbers in the last 5-7 years. This is in spite of 12-15 coyotes being trapped/shot each year on the same farm.
My personal feelings are that in select situations, intense management of predators can and will effect deer populations in a positive manner. The trouble is that you need to shoot a LOT of coyotes, and do it every single year. It's a tall task - one that is often insurmountable for most hunters. Killing a coyote here and a coyote there isn't going to do anything for overall deer populations.
That was very well said.
There was an interesting discussion about this on Steve Rinella's podcast a while back. He had Dan Flores on who wrote the book Coyote America. I don't necessarily agree that killing them is futile, but unless you're planning large scale trapping and shooting efforts that can be sustained for years, they are going to always repopulate and do so in a way that eventually becomes balanced.
With that being said, the latest QDMA deer report noted that average fawn recruitment rate has declined relatively steadily over the last decade, so some will argue it's in increase in predator numbers, but it could also be ecologically related.
Our game commission did a fawn predation study about 15 years ago, and surprisingly found black bears to have an equal (if not greater) impact on fawns oddly enough. The last I heard, they were planning to conduct another study here a few years ago.
Agree with Justin. That study was a "Coyote Free Zone". Something that is nearly unachievable, in a natural setting, with an animal that is as proliferate as the coyote. They are far spread through the US and are very adaptable. As in Justin's situation, if they don't thin the coyotes. Then that leaves them with not a lot of choices of thinning the deer herd themselves. Being able to take the number of does off their property they want. They would be stuck with what was there and possibly not being able to kill any deer for fear of the herd not being able to recover. Also thinning the coyotes not only has a positive affect on Deer herds but other small game and fowl game species. As it also can positively affect the health of the coyotes themselves. We've all seen pics of chupacabras and nasty looking yotes. Thats my $.02
I less coyote, means roughly 2-3 more fawns surviving. Works for me
Dan's book and appearance on the podcast were fascinating. Basically, it comes down to that coyotes will outlast every mammal on earth and there isn't much one can do to "manage" them.
Those yellow eyed bastards would come right thru the back screen door if your dog is in heat, best to have a gun ready.
I did not read the article so I'm not sure what it's all about.
That said, the last couple of years I've been changing my ideas about yote management. I still kill them when I can but I don't worry about it anymore. I'll take one out given a chance just because they are thick and they impact rabbit pops.
I realize I have created (am still creating) a deer haven on my property. I feed the deer, I plant plots, I protect them from poachers and trespassers and I'm sure I have an impact on surrounding neighbors hunting habits to some extent. Our populations are high, our birth rates and survival rates are high and our overall deer harvest is extremely low. I think there's plenty of room for yotes to take a few deer. They clean up the weak animals as well. Sure, they'll take a fawn now and again that may have booner potential but that's life. My goal isn't raising the oddball freak booner anyway...my goal is making an environment conducive to making a gross B&C score unordinary.
Creating good habitat is going to raise the number of deer and number of predators generally follows proportionally. Our deer currently are getting too thick to the point that they are getting annoying around the crop fields.
I see what your saying Covey and I'm willing to come out this fall and help you with that over populated deer problem.
Only way to rid your area of Coyotes is to allow wolves to repopulate...who supports that?
Wolves can run out and kill coyotes
I think overall coyotes eat way more rodents than anything else although I know they can take down deer and take a toll on fawns and turkey poults.
I trapped 7 coyotes this year on my 200 acre farm and unfortunately shot zero
Trail cam photos show I barely made a dent in the yote population
Plus I am sure others will step in to fill the space
Despite the high numbers of coyotes I still see deer numbers bouncing back from our HUGE loss from EHD in 2012
It sure feels futile to really control coyotes so I'll just trap for fur
Deer will have to figure it out for themselves
coyotes aren't the problem in my area. it's the bears. they will wipe out a deer herd in no time.
The coyote population in my area has increased and I have seen fewer deer in the past few years. I've also seen a coyote chasing a full grown doe. I took a shot at it with a pistol. Didn't hit it but it broke off the chase. I don't hate them but I'll continue to hunt them.
On a side note, in my experience if you want to clean out some coyotes trapping is the way to go.
I get serious about taking them out when they hunt around my house...When barn cats go missing & my old timer dog was hiding in the garage because of two Coyotes hunting him down in the yard. They piss me off taking out brand new fawns & leaving hundreds of raccoons (talk about crop damage! Nocking down an acre of corn stalks for a few bites off an ear). Coyotes have their place, just like us, and I have a couple that stay on my farm making 3-4 pups each year, but when they don't have enough to eat back there & come up to my house...My kids in the yard...Time to go
Had coyotes scratching on the door of the shed we hang deer in during season.
As long as the area I am hunting is Buck only, coyotes will be shot on sight.
You have some very valid points. I know for me it's a love/hate thing. Hate what they can do to deer......love to hunt them in the off season. I don't believe what you say about being hypocritical. Just like many on this thread say about wolves.......wolves kill the coyote.....coyote kills the fox.......we kill the coyote because we are a competing predator.
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