I won't disagree with that at all. My point is, the wolf lovers always repeat that wolves take out the weak and sick and lead people to believe that they don't touch the healthy. They will indeed hammer the healthy deer until the deer population is knocked down to a point where it can't handle the numbers of wolves that are currently there. You know the story, wolf numbers come down and a balance is created, along with a healthy deer population. One problem, where does man fit into the equation? Is there really room for two top predators? I believe there is no way man can manage deer herds correctly, the way nature intended. I believe predators can, but that's only in a world without man. Well, European settlers that is.
Absolutely, the problem is much much larger than wolves, they're just an easy target to blame. Around our camp in Ontario, there used to be tons of moose, before I moved up there in 2002. We would, and still, find moose sheds that have been laying out there since the early 90s. Now, if you see one set of moose tracks a year, it's a treat. What coincided with the moose crash? But of course, a booming whitetail population. It had zero to do with wolves, as they were always there. The whitetail boom caused a huge increase in brainworm and pretty much eliminated the moose from our area. About the wolves keeping wolf populations in check, that only happens when the food supply starts to run low. When I first moved to camp, we had 1 wolf pack around our lake and a booming deer population. Five years later, in 2007, there were at least three packs. I remember one morning deer hunting next to the lake and I could hear three different packs howling. It was amazing. Then we had two hard winters and the wolves slaughtered the deer, as well as lots dying of starvation. The deer population crashed, but for two years after that, the wolf population sustained. Then, and only then, did they start to keep each other in check. Now, we're back down to one pack around our lake.
I work out of the same wildlife management area that the DNR moose research team is officed, I too have the opportunity to discuss the moose issue with researchers. Yes there are environmental stresses to the moose herd, both weather wise and parasitic bugs as well. The biggest issue with the herd is failure of young of the year surviving to reach breeding age. The moose range is far beyond the typical NE MN forest range, and was in areas not frequented by wolves typically NW MN and NE North Dakota, those areas now have wolves in pretty good numbers. I agree that there are many different factors in what ails the moose population and in my opinion the wolf compounds the issue. Wolves are not going to go away the moose I am not so sure about that.
Sorry to derail your thread Midwest It is nice to see a healthy discussion on a controversial subject such as this. I feel like I should start calling you both names and telling you that you don't get it
Dude, I get called names all the time. But, I usually deserve it. Also, I don't really see it as derailing the thread, more like expanding the conversation.
Agreed. Man likes to picture balance as coming to the "right" number and staying there. Like this \___ The act of balancing is more like this. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Unfortunately we no longer have the patience of forethought for balance as a society.
I would like to see efforts to keep the wolves in the north part of the state, mostly because we are in the middle but honestly, I feel as if wolves dont "belong" this far south, more things for them to get in trouble with? Dogs, livestock, deer number, more people. I'd hate to seem packs of wolves getting comfortable with humans and start to become aggressive towards kids.
At the DNR Roundtable last winter, I was taken aback when they showed that half the moose calves were killed by wolves before September and then did NOT list them as a major contributor to the decline. Half the calves by September. Is there other data that contradicts this? I haven't seen any other data that does.
The problem with moose mortality is that they start to decompose rapidly, much more so that many animals due to their size and body temp. That's why the Mortality Study is so important. By the time most carcases are found, they're just that, a carcass. Determining the cause of death becomes much more of a guessing game. With this study, their goal is to have specimen sample in the lab in Minneapolis within 24 hrs of the moose dying. Wolves take moos calves, no doubt. But again, how many of those calves or their mothers were in good health to start with?
I may be way off, but seems to me from a way outsider looking up (in). I see moose tags as very hard to come by or impossible to get. With the wolf numbers on the rise seems moose was already low, yet now declining more?? Question 2... wolves compared to coyotes? I assume a huge difference, and would assume wolves control coyotes. Correct?
I've seen 3 coyotes ever up here. Maybe 15-20 trailcam photos (that's in the 6+ years I've lived here full time). Compared to seeing probably 75+ wolves and hundreds of pics of wolves. Again, the wolf population has grown in MN as a whole, but most (not all, but most) of that is expansion into new range.
The tag increase is proportional to the harvest quota increase. They added 500 tags and are taking 30 more wolves. That's inline with how many tags/harvest they've had. So I believe that makes 3800 tags with a 250 quota (3300/220 last year?). I don't think they were trying to be sly about it. That's a 13% increase in scheduled harvest and the population had increased 9%.
I am not going to make a blanket statement but the DNR has not been up to the task as of late. Mille Lacs is a prime example of mismanagement. I don't think the DNR's deer management has been to par with other states as well
I don't have to deal with other top predators where I hunt, but am always confused and dismayed when hunters get upset about wolves or cougars coming back into their natural ranges and then tout conservation when they talk about deer. If you truly care about actual conservation you would want all the natural wildlife occurring there, even if it affects your hunting. Should they be managed? Yes, but not completely gone from an area Sent from my RM-845_nam_vzw_100 using Tapatalk
Not completely gone but I would be willing to bet that there are more wolves than Moose in Minnesota, this needs to change to build the moose population, sure the moose have other issues but the issues they have are compounded by the fat that they pressured and pushed by wolves every day
