I guess this topic is one of the reasons I love hunting with my longbow. I can kill anything and most folks will consider it a trophy. Much less pressure to bring home the big rack. TDM is why hunting is so expensive in Texas and the reason asking for permission is a joke. Everywhere in Tx is pay to play.
I doubt those hunters would have shot those deer in an antler restriction zone, so I doubt they would have been poachers. Also, we aren't talking about QDM in this thread. QDM is a great cause.
My greatest trophy, my Grandfathers deer skin vest, a lot of fawns had to die to make this vest. As for the thread, it's about competition and being the best. Those who kill the biggest bucks are perceived as the best hunters. Most men like to be looked up to by their peers. For us, and most of us it's our age, being in my 30's I still have that drive to be the best, but I always try to have fun in doing so. This last year I have change a bit, being the best is not my goal. Hunting with family and friends is my goal in the future. I am still going to hunt for big bucks, just not the biggest. Being the best in my circle for killing big bucks is no longer my goal. Being the best hunter is my goal, and being the best hunter has little to do with what is hanging on my wall.
Precisely why I don't talk about the deer I shoot on these forums. Sooner or later someone will make some snide comment. Hell, you can look through some recent threads here and see posts ridiculing someone that may shoot a buck, regardless of antler size, just for the meat. Would any of you guys shoot any buck just for the meat? If not, why not? Ask yourself why a buck needs antlers of a certain size just for you to be able to shoot it. I can understand going after an older deer, buck or doe, much more than I can understand going after antlers. Gary said it best when he said, "Those who kill the biggest bucks are perceived as the best hunters.". They may be crappy hunters that have a large farm where they "let bucks go to let them grow" and when the deer get big enough, they get shot. But, if the antlers are huge, the next thing you know they will have their own TV show and sponsors because they kill "big bucks" and all they really do is pass on shooting them every year until they are "big enough to shoot".
I don't have an issue with better management practices across the board to help increase buck size as a whole. But yeah, I agree, this is getting so far out of hand that many are losing sight of what hunting is supposed to be about. I can't hardly stomach the shows on TV any more. They're nothing more than a 30 minute infomercial, bought and payed for, by Matthews, Scent Lok, etc. You know its bad when they show a guy climbing a treestand and pause on the Scent Lok logo on his jacket.
The commercialization and the self-imposed pressure you mentioned Scott can be related or entirely separate. I don't watch hunting shows for a variety of reasons, but I can tell you that they have NO bearing on my self-imposed pressure when hunting, and the times where I'm guilty of not making it as fun for myself. In reality, I put pressure on myself mostly due to perception by others and also my own evaluation of how "good" of a hunter I am. I didn't put a buck down this year with my bow. I had two misses. I started putting pressure on myself, questioning why I couldn't get it done year in and year out like most on here, etc, etc. I do enjoy getting out and being in the woods, but I've said it before, I put a lot of pressure on myself to get a deer down as do many on here. I think many on here who put deer down regularly might feel differently if they weren't as consistent. My lack of consistency is the source of my greatest frustrations, but let it be known, I'm not killing myself to put down monster bucks, just bucks that make me happy.
Good point, putting pressure on yourself is fine, where it crosses the line is when you hinder others in pursuit of a buck. I don't think someone messing with your stands or setup has to do with Tiffany shooting a buck. It has more to do with the hunter not being able to shoot one. So they look for someone to blame. It's Buckeye's fault he's shooting all the big bucks.
Well....like ole Rob said....I hunt for me ... I am tickled with every deer I kill.....I have let many go this year...I was sick of butchering..lol .. but now I will kill another good sized doe and process it for our mission.....and if given the chance, I will shoot a big buck..for me .. and I am ALL about hunting with family as well ... I am a wall of shame guy in some eyes... but I don't care one bit about THEIR eyes
I think for many guys I know it's just natural progression. When we started we shot anything...but over time, you realize the only big game animal we have access to is Whitetail, and we have 3.5 months of bowseason...no sense in shooting the first couple deer that walk by if you truly enjoy being out in the woods as much as we do...and who doesn't want that Big One up on the wall? But the best part is that my group doesn't go crazy - we all hold out for whatever a "shooter" is to us...but we still also have fun just shooting deer. We start off each year with a deer camp the first weekend of bowseason - and just shoot deer, then guys hold out a bit during the rut, then it's back to shooting deer. It kind of funny how during the rut none of us hunt together and we're all hitting our best spots as hard as we can...but outside the rut, we actually have our most "fun" by hunting together and tagging some does, drag 'em back to the cabin, celebrate with a beer...those are what I want my kids to experience. If anyone gives a kid crap at our cabin for shooting a buck too small - they won't be welcomed back.
I very much dislike the fact that other hunters throw all hunters In the same boat. Who gives a rats ass If someone likes Inches over age or vice versa. It's up to that hunter that's hunting, no one else.
Great post bz! I agree completely. I'm also glad to see I'm not the only one who dislikes where 'hunting' has gone in recent years. I have my personal goals, and do what makes me happy. I could care less what anyone else thinks or does. In reality, I'm probably the suckiest bowhunter on this board in alot of peoples eyes....because I haven't shot a buck with my bow in many years. I refuse to shoot something that won't make me happy. I enjoy my time out, its not about me getting "a" buck down, so I can have bragging rights. I think this whole TDM thing is gonna come full circle eventually. I know several guys that have put so much pressure on themselves trying to kill a whopper over a number of years trying "to prove something" (to who I don't know) - that now they have reverted back to just shooting anything and having fun. They got burned out.
I really like this and I remember you said it to me before Jeff.. "Someone used an analogy a few years ago that I think about, sometimes. Something about remembering how cool it felt to catch panfish with a cane pole and a bobber. You just had fun -- fishin'. I see my hunting heading in that direction." As some of you know I went to hunting with a trad bow this year. This year I also scouted a hundred hours or so for the bigger bucks on the place I hunt. I was stuck in a mental dilemma as to what I wanted to accomplish (big bucks vs trad kill), because hunting with a trad bow is a MUCH different game than hunting with a compound, especially for a newbie like me. What become apparent to me after much self discovery is I prefer the method of the hunt over the "trophy". I am not saying I am not after big bucks, because I am, I am just saying that I am feeling more and more like a bream fisherman like Jeff talked about above. My son and daughter are within a few years of being able to hunt and I want to make it enjoyable for them, so my mentality is changing from the pro bass tournament fisherman to the bream fisherman, or an opportunistic woodsman. I am still going to put in the work to find and kill the bigger bucks because that is enjoyable to me, but the method of the kill trumps the "trophy" hunting aspect. The last few nights I have read trad hunting catalogs and actually ordered some arrow building stuff last night for my recurve. I sat there looking at plaid jackets and wooden arrows. I was mesmorized as it just feels right to me. This might sound very simplistic to some of you guys but I really just grab my bow, walk out into the open woods and hunt. I don't get caught up with what everyone else does because I do not care. And even if I did caught up with everyone else and what they do,how does that help me achieve my personal hunting goals? It doesn't so I don't even think about it anymore. It might sound weird but I can envision losing my treestand one day and only hunting from the ground with a stick bow. That is the evolution of my hunting experience.
I hear ya Buckeye, it can be hard to watch. There are a few shows I still enjoy. The ones that keep it down to earth and that are informative/education are my favs. Heck I enjoy BH.com "bowhunt or die" as well as ANY tv show! As far as TDM goes, human nature gets involved and screws up everthing, has for centurys will continue to! I think some hunters graduate to a point where they truely hunt for themselves and their own personal reasons, while others live their hunting lives trying to impress or satisfy others. We all know which on causes the most stress and problems.
Brett.....like someone told me a little over a year ago..... When the "how" means more to you than the "how big" or "how many"......you'll know you've made the right choice. Bruce....Amen, bro.
I didn't read all the responses. My opinion is obviously right, and more important. Trophy management, today, is about money... - Big bucks sell hunting products. - Outfitters and ranches make more money by having bigger bucks. - Big bucks get TV ratings because these are deer the average hunter will never see. Its kind of like watching the PGA tour. A lot of people watch to see things done they could never do. Does the average hunter want to see a 1.5 yo 4pt shot on public land? Sure some do, but its not the majority. The majority want to watch something they can't do themselves. I want to see older bucks because of how they act, and because of how rare they are in my area. A 2.5 looks like a horse compared to the parade of 1.5s I see every year. A 3.5 looks like the biggest deer in the world. I like the big bodied, heavy necked bucks. Rack isn't important to me. I would shoot a 3.5yo 4pt anyday over a 110" 2.5 if the choice presented itself. Don't get my wrong, I think big antlers are pretty cool, just not why I hunt. You could always come to MI and hunt our version of TDM (traditional deer managment). Its easy to follow. Shoot the first buck with 3" of antler on its head, and never shoot does. Fun for everyone!
What I meant was its all about where you're from and how you were raised on hunting. Its going to be different for everyone. The Hunting Laws here make a difference. Also theres a big section in QDM on antler growth and killing mature bucks, so I think it has something to do with it. That could be preceived by some as TDM.
Shows on T.V. are for entertainment and advertising products only. They are simply just not hunting in realistic environments for most hunters. I still watch a few, but not as much as I used to. As far as this "TDM" thing goes, I will admit that I used to get a little upset when a young deer was brought in. It didn't take long for me to learn that if I wanted to be successful, I needed to quit worrying about what other people were shooting, and start focusing on what I needed to do to kill the deer I was after. My cousin this year killed a really nice 2.5 year old 8 pointer during the gun season, that I had passed on a few times earlier this year. I recognized the buck as soon as he drug it into camp. I never told him that I had even seen the deer before, just congratulated him on his 2nd biggest buck ever.
AMEN!!! :D . . . . . Sorry Tony, I just couldn't resist!!! :D What do you mean Scott??? You don't shoot little bucks do you??? You like big racks as much as anyone don't you??? Do you hunt for MEAT or for TROPHY??? I know the answers to the questions, but aside from that, I somewhat understand what you mean. I don't watch "hunting shows" anymore, as they just irritate me. But I think we all want a NICE big buck, but most of us aren't spending thousands of $$$ a year to "manage" land to kill them. I know I certainly am not about to go spending thousands of $$$$ in efforts to "farm" deer.
