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Once a upon a spike... always a spike?

Discussion in 'Whitetail Deer Hunting' started by Tom N, Sep 30, 2013.

  1. tfox

    tfox Grizzled Veteran

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    That was the conclusion of the more recent and more controlled study. However, it was a much smaller study.:D


    I have always said spikes can and will most likely have a trophy rack given enough age and nutrition.

    However, I will always say that genetics is a huge factor as well. I doubt a spike will ever reach the same potential as the 120"+ yearling. ;)



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  2. Skywalker

    Skywalker Grizzled Veteran

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    I don't "Cull" spikes because I find my antlered deer tags to be more valuable than to waste it on a small deer. If I were to "cull" the spikes, I wouldn't have a tag when a mature buck does walk into range. Plus I don't really buy the whole once a spike, always a spike. I've seen lots of yearling spikes, and have never seen a 2 or 3 year old spike in my area.
     
  3. tfox

    tfox Grizzled Veteran

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    Thats fine, but that article was written in 2012. Not sure about the study and it was a controlled environment.

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    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  4. tfox

    tfox Grizzled Veteran

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    Sure, they have more controlled nutrition and fewer predators.

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  5. Tom N

    Tom N Newb

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    It also seems like they are saying that the social pressure within the herd would have an affect on the growth rate as well. Seeing that in the first article testers had spikes and 3 points separated from the 4+ pointers. That raises another questions do yearling bucks with more points show more dominance and is that considered as "social pressure"when you have the two groups interacting with eachother? maybe i'm just reading this wrong.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  6. tfox

    tfox Grizzled Veteran

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    That would probably be a different study.:D

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  7. KillerC

    KillerC Weekend Warrior

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    Usually better actually.
     
  8. bghunter777

    bghunter777 Weekend Warrior

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    Spikes can grow into mature large racked bucks but would statistically be slightly less likely than a 6 or 8 pt 1.5 year old. Not saying it can't happen its just slightly less likely.

    As for shooting them to try and pass on better genetics in a wild deer population this is a futile effort.
     
  9. Fitz

    Fitz Legendary Woodsman

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  10. tfox

    tfox Grizzled Veteran

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    I believe that is talking about the same study that french posted.

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  11. tfox

    tfox Grizzled Veteran

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    The thing that study points to is that a spike doesn't necessarily have inferior genetics. I don't agree or disagree, would love to see the fathers and grandfathers at 5 years old.

    Something else I see, they compare spikes to 4 points. I would like a study that compares spikes and 4 points to larger rack yearlings. (8-10 point baskets)

    It would be nice to know what the biggest rack a spike has produced as well.

    The question of once a spike always a spike is obviously a false myth.


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  12. Tom N

    Tom N Newb

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    No matter which article it is, I think it is safe to say that deer management is only effective when havesting mature deer (4 - 4 1/2 + yrs old) buck or doe.
     
  13. tfox

    tfox Grizzled Veteran

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    I think that is safe to say

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  14. KYhunter

    KYhunter Weekend Warrior

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    Agreed! Try and tell this to people that say that "if it's brown. it's down..."
     
  15. Spear

    Spear Grizzled Veteran

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    The only way to properly and accurately age a deer is to analyze the jaw bone for tooth wear and replacement. Body size, antler size, etc., can only be used as a general guideline when actually hunting in the field because you can't sit the deer in a dentist chair to take a peek. There's no right or wrong way to hunt, but if you want to implement QDM the key is to provide the deer with the basic necessities like food, minerals, water, and shelter and then let them mature. Look at the surrounding areas and whatever isn't being provided, provide it. Then make sure to analyze the sex ratio and ensure it stays balanced. You can't be afraid to shoot a few does and if you want to create a herd with big bucks, you have to let them grow and mature. Shooting a spike isn't going to do anything to accomplish QDM, but it will fill your freezer. It all depends on what your hunting goals are.
     
  16. tfox

    tfox Grizzled Veteran

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    Nothing wrong with that philosophy if your just out there to hunt for meat and enjoyment

    If you're wanting to manage a trophy buck herd, that obviously won't work.

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  17. Goosepond Monster

    Goosepond Monster Die Hard Bowhunter

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    From the QDMA Facebook page...

    [​IMG]
     
  18. CoveyMaster

    CoveyMaster Grizzled Veteran

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    Agree with most, a spike is not necessarily "inferior". I've seen several spikes over the years grow nice racks as they mature. Likewise I've seen some not grow much past spikes so it's a gamble.

    Culling works for herd health though, mostly due to bringing the doe to buck ratios in balance. Trying to manipulate wild population genetics is an uphill battle at best. Most antler problems are nutrition and environmental anyway.
     
  19. Tom N

    Tom N Newb

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    According to the articles we should not judge a deer's age by antler size at all, seeing that they grow at different rates to begin with. I do like the tip that spear brought up to find out what your area is missing\lacking and make sure you provide it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  20. wolvenkinde

    wolvenkinde Die Hard Bowhunter

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    I agree with this - but also want to state; if you think that by putting on antler point restrictions, as with 3 or 4 points on a side to generate more 'trophy' potential, you are contributing to the overall health of the herd then you are sadly mistaken.
     

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