Not a mistake, a bad choice of shot

So this guy was under the impression that since he was puling 70 lbs and shooting a fixed head he could take an awful shot on this buck and penetrate through the shoulder plate.. I know we have had this discussion about heavy arrows, fixed heads, blowing through the scapula....I guess it has been done, I have not done it, but this guy thought it was a good idea to try it since he was shooting different set up...I don't want to judge anyone for taking a bad shot, I have done that before in my younger days, but this shot is not a good shot to try for IMO, he to me he wrote it off as a "mistake"...a mistake to me is miss judgment of yards or angle. Not simply taking a less than desirable shot just because you think your equipment is capable..fast forward to the 15 min mark if you just want to analyze the shot. I just think this a stupid thing to do. maybe I am wrong altogether, but it's worth a discussion about what your bow and set can do and what you think it can do.

 

You should pass I agree...my purpose was to show some actual footage of what we were discussing since nobody had any. This is the perfect example of what I was talking about hitting the scapula...I do not know what the guy's arrow weighed, that was the only thing he did not say. But more than that, I was stating it was not a mistake, he didn't misjudge yardage, didn't hit his coat sleeve or hit too far back from hand torque...he simply and purposefully shot at a bad angle because he thought his set up would do the job...Many on here stated their set ups can and have done that, so I have no argument with them at all...by all means do what you can with the set up you have and make any shot you want..I just don't think this dude knew what his set up was capable of doing, he just assumed because he was shooting 70# and a fixed head that he could shoot and kill....but buy all means, don't get involved in the post. In fact the admin can delete it or I can if it stirs a pot

 

Despite being a fan of heavy arrows for better penetration, I agree with you. I didn't watch the whole video, I skipped to the point at 15 min. If he discussed his arrow set up, I missed it. That was too severe of a quartering towards angle for my tastes and the shot placement looked back for that angle. But, it may have looked different from the camera angle versus what it was to him.

Edit: I watched it twice. Pause it at 15:25, you see that the arrow hit back behind the shoulder and high, almost next to the spine. Bad angle or not, the shot placement was off and the hit was bad.

 

A mistake is defined as "an action or judgment that is misguided or wrong." Seems about right to me.

I think it's easy to sit back and judge people for making a poor decision, mistake, whatever you want to call it. Regardless of how you spin it, it's a shot that he shouldn't have taken. We've all taken them at some point in our lives, and I would certainly call those decisions mistakes - so long as you learn from them.

IMO he doesn't come across as a heavy arrow/high FOC guy since there's no reference to any tech specs other than a fixed blade head and 70 lbs. Yes, he incorrectly assumed at 5 yards he could put the arrow through the deer and kill it. Although if he executed the shot he wanted, he very well may have. However, he didn't, and this is the end result.

The only thing that bugs me is the lack of understanding that he shouldn't have taken the shot at all. He talks a lot about how he didn't hit where he wanted and it was only 5 yards, but I don't get the sense that he feels he shouldn't have done it in the first place. But hey, I don't know the guy, so it's not fair to judge him. I've certainly made my fair share of mistakes in life.

 

I know there some on here that can make that shot happen..I can't. I know my limits. This guy had to see his arrow sticking out of the deer running away and see that there was very little penetration. Again, I have chosen some bad shots in my past. I am not throwing stones, but I would think with all the discussions these days on this topic he would have better knowledge of shot placement.

 

well said as always.

 

No offense taken. I probably should have just left it alone. I just think something could be learned from the actual footage about shot placement. Good luck and be safe!

 

To the first bold part; I agree, if he was a big FOC/heavy arrow guy he probably would have mentioned it.
To the second, there is a point towards the end where he says he should have waited for the deer to come more broadside. He does apologize to the hunting community.

Even if he had gotten a passthrough on that angle and point of impact I do not think he would have recovered that deer. You could shoot them there with a sharpened piece of rebar and it wouldn't do any good. Infection or coyotes aside, it does not look to me to be a lethal hit.

 

Here’s a question.
What pin do you use for a 5 yard shot?
I bet this knowledge is what he was lacking since he hit so high.
I know with my setup that up to 5 yards I need my 40 pin, then 6-8 yards it’s my 30 pin, and then after that my 20 pin is fine.

 

@Justin hit most of the topics and points I was going to stress so I won't restate but will make some additions.

I'd go as far as to bet this guy doesn't even know what FOC is beyond an arrow term...or merely the words Forward of Center. IF he did, you can guarantee both his total weight and the percent forward would have been mentioned. I'd go as far as to bet, this guy doesn't even know his total arrow build weight. <--- this is a glaring issue I have when he moves into his beliefs and assumptions of what his set up can do or cannot do. It's kind of like someone attempting to appear to be one to listen to for furniture building when all they've done is buy pre-built or stuff form IKEA...

*side vent ^^Honestly, its a great illustration of why the hunting industry sucks as much as it is awesome. There are so so so many folks that love to pretend to have all the knowledge, yet never illustrate actual knowledge. They merely create content, what the quality of that content is honestly is irrelevant to them.

I also bank that he never "lost the after footage" - I'm betting he said some things that were untrue and would not look best. *which to be fair is not a crazy thing to do.

That said, as to the direct choice he made to launch the arrow - ignorance illustrated is all it was. Either choice ignorance or truly clueless ignorance is all it was. I personally, even though I would bet my set up at roughly 605 total grains, tipped with a 200 grain single bevel Grizzlystik Samurai head and over 15% FOC; would still not have chosen to try that shot.

Three main reasons why:

1. It was 100% wrong to take.
2. The deer was calm, working that edge and at 5 yards - zero reason to rush into deciding to shoot.
3. It was 100% not a shot I'd take.

All that said, as others have said....learning from ones mistakes is part of it all...however I question whether much was learned and I would bet he would take this shot again. His only regret seemed to be that he didn't execute the shot as he should have at 5 yards...and that a 70lbs and fixed head should win....um...I know guys shooting 70 lbs at 30 inch draws that shoot pool noodle arrow builds and would never make it through either.

 

MAN THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION..!!! I don't really know since I have one pin to about 26 yards...I would hold low and bend at the waist

 

More and more guys are on youtube and what not posting vids. We all need to realize many of them dont have the experience they seem to exude. Many younger viewers just see guys using the latest equipment, camo outfits, and speaking using the latest hunting buzz words...they think that means these guys have been hunting for 20 yrs and arrowed 50 deer. Most havent.

 

wow....that was awesome dude!! The reason I posted this was for opportunity for us all to learn and have input. maybe this guy is reading this as we speak...

 

I know that my response perhaps was bit brash and harsh...but I should stress how important I feel the content creators must take their delivery of content. Not to mention the severity of our decisions as hunters on whether to shoot or not shoot could NEVER be emphasized enough.

I'm not perfect, not even close - let's get that out there real quick.

However, I hold all content creators big and small to a much higher expectation of decisions because people are watching what they produce. In my opinion that means one should be fully aware of and knowledgeable to an extent above the "normal guys and gals" and be willing to be extremely self critical when moments such as these arrive. Don't get me wrong, the guy seems fairly decent albeit based solely on this one video of his as I've never seen him before; BUT I believe if you're going to produce content discussing a shot, an intense evaluation of it needs to occur. That sucks, as it won't necessarily paint the best image of you at the time - UNLESS you genuinely appear changed by the mistake.

I'll share my own TERRIBLE shot choice story....

Years ago, before I knew probably even less than a 1/3 of what I do now I was hunting the parent's property at one of my best stands. I had arrived hour before legal shooting....at legal shooting another hunter that apparently had been given permission came walking down through the woods and climbed a treestand LITERALLY 35 yards by mine. He knew of me, knew we were once told we were only bowhunters allowed (but he was the owners' family and found out decided to "keep a distance" from our stand). Whatever, anyways....had a 18 inch wide low beamed but nice 8 pointer come walking out of the bedding infront of me and walk towards me. Now this trail that he was walking at first is directly facing the tree....but about 9 yards in front of the stand veers and offers typically 7-11 yard broadside shots. This joker decides he's going to not follow the trail but continue walking RIGHT UNDER my stand. Now he's a nice buck for me at that stage in my life (I'd pass him now and thought about it then)....but I glance over at the other hunter and he's already getting set and has his bow ready to draw....

With the buck 2 yards directly in front of me, I draw....the buck is literally under my stand rail basically....I lean over all the way, put the pin between the shoulder blades and squeeze........while the flight time to death was less than a second or two it seemed like eternity. I had literally just taken a TERRIBLE shot, with no excuse and a very thin window of lethality and assured recovery. A tick left or a tick right and I at BEST one lung this deer and have an insanely tough task and long tracking job with not a great chance of recovery.

Luckily I nailed the spine, the deer literally went stiff and did a backwards somersault dying 4 yards in front of me instantly.

THE WORST shot choice I've ever made, truly cannot be defended IMO - yet was the quickest death of an animal I've ever delivered in deer hunting.

Now, here is the thing I was successful and still know and knew instantly there was ZERO justification for such a shot....I think if this gentleman is reading this I'd desire he consider just one question: "IF you'd punched the shoulder enough to hit lungs or enough to kill and recover the deer...how would you feel about the shot?"

That's a conversation for the man in the mirror and him to have. I got the sense his only regret was not delivering on the shot because it didn't work...if it had worked I fear he'd felt great about the shot because he made it work. That would be highly concerning.

 

All I'll say is taking a shot that you stated you have , NEVER PRACTICED, at a sharp forward angle , on the non heart side...well do I really need to say anything????

 

I think you are 100% right. I had a similar thing happen to me about 5 seasons ago in Indiana, except it was a perfect broadside but sharp angle/close shot. Pulling a 70# Mission Ballistic pushing 430gr arrows at about 290fps and it hit high in the shoulder and only penetrated about 3-4". I could see the lighted nock on the arrow whipping back and forth as he bounded off into a bean field and around the bend, out of sight.

I didn't find a single drop of blood, much less the deer.

While I know I hit high due to him being so close, that deer is what got me started reading more about being properly tuned, heavier arrows, FOC, etc. I replayed that over and over in my head and realized that all the energy got dumped out of the back of the arrow as it hit that shoulder and began to deflect. I knew my arrows had a wiggle out to about 20 yards that would then correct but I was 10-ringing it at 80 yards so I didn't want to mess with my rig. Just stubborn stupidity to not get that tuned out.

An arrow that isn't aligned head to tail as it strikes a target is instantly robbed of so much momentum it isn't funny.

 

That is another component that many people do not think about. You know what your sight is good for at 20 and further, but under that, how many people practice those shorter distances to know how to correctly hold? I shoot a single pin slider that I leave set at 25 yards because most of my hunting spots are 30 yards or less in shooting distance and I prefer shots at animal to be under 25 yards. It has taken hundreds of shots in practice to learn it, but I can confidently say at 5 yards-dead on, 10 yards- 2" high, 15 yards 4" high, 20 yards-2" high, 25 yards dead on, 30 yards, 3" low. But, I wouldn't know if I didn't practice it enough to learn my arrows trajectory at the distances between 0-20 yards.

You also have to be willing to slow down in the moment of the shot and really pay attention to your sight picture. I lost a doe last year that I hit high on a quartering away shot because I rushed it and did not settle my pin low enough. It should have been an easy kill but turned into a one-lung nightmare that crossed property lines where I could not get permission to track. Making mistakes is a part of bowhunting and life. But, you have to own it and learn when it happens.