Was just talking to some guys that work for Cabelas (endorsing merchandise, testing, etc..) And told them about my farm and how we try to shoot around 25-30% of the doe population every year, according to numerous QDMA and other management books say to do. *Now this is NOT my belief at all, but thought it was an interesting thing. These guys said they are not shooting a lot of does, because for example, if you kill 10 does that were all pregnant, you are really killing around 20-25 deer for later on down the road. You will see bigger bucks the next year and the year after that, but they have to travel onto others land just to find a doe, usually getting shot in the process. So after a few good years, your deer population goes way down and no bucks want to travel on land with no does. They say this has happened to an entire county by Columbia, Missouri, who had given out unlimited doe tags. They also said they are good friends with the Drury brothers, and that this year the hunting was beyond terrible for them and they think its because of this same reason. Now, take it for what its worth, I'm not for it or anything, just wondering if any of you all have heard of this?
For what? I'm for shooting as many does as the biologist AND I think is warranted. Why would you shoot does.....just to shoot 'em? Why would you KEEP shooting does, if you're not seeing them (with regularity)? Time to invoke some common sense.
After 3 or 4 years of "earn a buck" on my land, I am not shooting any does. For the past two seasons, with actual observations and thousands of trail cam pictures, I am seeing 6-7 bucks and 3-4 does. I could use more does.
Shooting does seems to be more complicated than you'd think, when, how many, which ones. I think the most overlooked aspect about shooting does is which ones. Is shooting the mature does the best option? Mature does like bucks establish core areas, if you're shooting the mature does on your property and leaving the fawns and yearlings, you have no control where they may establish their core area. I'm starting to believe in shooting young does and leave the mature does that I know will be on my property for years to come if I keep my property in good condition, does that are experience in raising young and protecting them from predation.
I don't think you can say you should shoot "X" amount of does every year. You have to take it on a year to year basis, and a number of factors would be involved.
pure.... Do you have very few deer (total) on your properties? I'm always interested in reading studies that support harvesting one age class doe over another. If you have a link or two....I'd appreciate it.
Having too many does is a bad thing. Bucks will become lazy and won't move around as much if the land has too many does as well and the competition to breed them is less. Having not enough does will lead to what you described unless it is a travel route to somewhere where there are does. The key is to acquire and maintain balance. Many experts say a good balance should consist of 1 buck to every 3-6 does. So shoot or don't shoot whatever you need to maintain this ratio.
Too many variables to make a blanket statement that you should shoot x percentage of does. How can some guy at Cabellas know how many does I should shoot. And that seems like a very high doe to buck ratio to me.
Thought these was a pretty good ones. http://www.buckmanager.com/2007/03/11/importance-of-buck-to-doe-ratio/ http://www.whitetailstewards.com/articlesonsite/deerpopulationmanage/understandingdeersexratios.htm If I had land to manage I would try for 3-4 does per buck in my area. Edit: Oh and when I say does I mean "Anterless" deer. Buck fawns included in the doe count (for me).
Agreed. I would have to find it, but I read an interesting article, posted on another forum, that showed why it was impossible to have a ratio greater than 3 does to 1 buck. Nature just won't allow it, even with us killing them.
GFY....Did you read those studies? If your goal is to simply increase the herd numbers.......having a Buck:doe ratio of over 1:2 is OK. If your goal is quality bucks.......the closer you can get to 1:1....the better off you are. The studies you cited confirm this. It is mathematically impossible to sustain that sort of ratio.
I think I've heard that argument as well. I'm just stating articles I've read and two shown. I'm no expert. I just read. One thing for sure is that there is an extremely wide range of opinions regarding this. I don't believe the science has this pinned down as facts yet.
I've certainly read articles that cited 10:1 ratios, but those articles weren't written by biologist. It is my understanding, that most biologists agree with the 3:1 ratio, but I don't know that for a fact. There is a formula that shows why anything greater than 3:1 is impossible, even with high buck harvest. I just can't find the damn thing. I'll keep looking...
Had those bookmarked saved and read them quite a while back. My personal goal would be to increase the head numbers while still giving a chance at a quality buck. The 1:1 ratio (or close to if you can obtain it) to me is limiting your chance of seeing deer (in general) too few for my tastes. I like seeing deer being a bucks or a does.
You don't need the formula. Give me your "perceived" buck:doe ratio (including herd numbers - total), currently, and we'll do the math, right here!
Here is another question. What is the minimum sampling size in terms of ratios (to be accurate)? If your sampling size is too small the actual statistical ratios could be way off.
How about this Jeff? Year 1: Start with 200 fawns and let them grow for 1 year. Year 2: You now have 100 1.5 year old bucks and 100 1.5 year old does. Now, each year all antlered bucks are killed and all does survive. Each doe has 1 fawn, half are males, half are females. Year 3, 50 adult bucks, 150 adult does. Year 4, 75 adult bucks, 225 does Year 3. 112 bucks (rounding down), 350 does Year 4. 175 bucks, 525 does Year 5. 262 bucks, 787 does Notice, the ratio is about 3:1, and it stays this way forever. This is the maximum ratio, with a 100% antlered buck kill (1.5 yo). Does that sound right?
