New To Archery, But Eventually Want To Hunt.

Hey Guys,

The other things I was looking at were arrows and arrow fletching. It seems that the Bitzenburger Jig w/ the Zenith upgrade pack is the mack daddy of all the different jigs. Anyone have any thoughts on this and exactly what parts make-up everything you would need to do all types of fletchings? I'm a righty so would only need the right helical and straight.

Also, what is the deal with bow presses? Even if you have an self-adjustable bow, is it still a good thing to have a press?

I figure if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it up right and learn to do all for myself. I was also thinking to get some books on the subject of all things archery but was wondering if there are any really good ones.

 

They will let you try out the bows which is good. I'm pretty sure they do lessons with compounds but I'm not 100% sure.

 

Hey All,

I was just researching some targets today, as I will need mainly, large indoor ones with little to no pass-through. From what I saw they are mostly crap if you're not going to spring for a $100+ target.

Two interesting items I came across were the Morrell Humungo Broadhead Target ($30) and the other was not a target at all, but rather just industrial/commercial grade styrofoam blocks that you can buy from Lowes or Tractor Supply Co (was cautioned, via archerytalk.com, not all foam is created equal, some are denser than others).

Apparently if you're lucky you could just ask them for their shipping foam blocks and if your really lucky they will be willing to just give them to you, instead of making you pay for them. If you can get some, you then stack them to your preference and duct tape them together tightly (you can bag them in burlap or tarp, or even hit them with some Great Stuff Foam in a can for extra padding), then draw your own targets. Kinda sounds too good to be true.

I was going to ask if anyone has had any experience with the Lowes/Tractor Supply Co. Foam Blocks and/or Morrell Humungo Broadhead Target and if either is as good as the reviews say?

 

Dang there is a bunch of new guys floating around this joint lately. First off, welcome to the forum.

Now for a bow. My suggestion like some others is go towards the middle with your axel to axel bow choice. Shooting fingers or not, this is an advantage to a longer drawing archer. This does a few things. It makes your string angle less which is more comfortable an more consistent. More consistent in the fact that you don't have to "dig" your head into position to anchor. This also is more comfortable and more repeatable. Repeatable is consistent and consistency is key. Consistency equals accuracy and accuracy is encouraging, especially coming into archery. The wrong set up for an archer in the beginning is very frustrating and that doesn't make for a happy beginner.

You also want a longer brace height, especially being a long draw archer. Your power stroke or amount of time your string is in contact pushing the arrow is much longer than say a 27" archer so a longer brace height makes for more forgiving (more accurate) set up. In other words torquing the bow had less effect on accuracy. Think about it this way. If you take a stick that is 24" and put the pivot point 6" from one end the other end moves so far. Now take the same 24" stick and move the pivot point 7" from the end the opposite end will move less. Lets say for sake of argument that the movement was only 1" more at 6". That 1" at 10yd may only be 1/2" but, at 40 that's 2" off. Add human error and you could easily double that to 4". Take that 24" stick with the pivot point back at 6" and make the stick 30" and thats an even bigger difference in movement that is magnified that much more. Now I didn't sit down and do the math so those numbers may be off but, you get the picture. If not ill try harder to describe the effects of brace height.

Longer riser bows are more stable. They aren't as easy to Cant (out of level). Canting is when the bow is not vertically level. Meaning the top or bottom is leaning left or right when at full draw.

An archer needs to balance all the factors to their draw length to achieve a high rate of accuracy. If your draw length is 26" and you are shooing a 30" axel to axel bow with a 6" brace height, you would more than likely be more consistent than a 30" draw archer shooting the same bow. Why? The bow is more stable and more comfortable to shoot for the short draw archer due to the string angle, shorter power stroke and the brace height not effecting the power stroke as much. It's basically a ratio. Longer draw=longer brace height, axel to axel and longer riser.

If I were you I would steer clear of anything shorter than 34". I am a 29" draw and I won't go below that again. I went from a 38" ATA to a 32" ATA and hated the bow. Couldn't get consistent. Switch to a 34+" ATA and I'll never go back.

As for target or hunting set up, go with the 34"-38" ATA Bow. I use my hunting rig for both and if I do anything different this year it will be add stabilizers. So I personally recommend a 34"+ ATA, 7" brace height bow with a longer riser.

As for finger shooting a compound, I wouldn't say it can't be done but, I do recommend a release. They are more accurate and consistent. My wife is a finger shooter but, she is drawing 45lb. She also has a beautiful repeatable release that just came natural to her. She can't shoot as many shots in a session as I can due to her fingers hurting either though an that's only 45lb.

As far as a target, bags are great for beginners.

In the end only you can decide which bow is best for you. I will say if you follow the guidelines I listed above you will more than likely see why I suggested all that. Now go shoot some bows and come back to this thread and keep us posted.

 

SticknString,

Now that is a hell of an answer (in a good way)!

I think I get what you are saying. That is why I haven't completely made up my mind on which bow to choose (especially since I haven't shot any and am still unsure of my exact DL) but for some reason I keep coming back to the Hoyt Spider 34 LD and the Bowtech Insanity CPXL (something about them just resonates with me, even from a cold stand point. One could say the bows are choosing me). The other bows I really like are the Matthews MR6/7, but they are 33". The best compromise looks to be the Bear Anarchy.

My only problem with the longer ATA bows is the speed reduction that seem to plague all of them. I'd love a 38"+ ATA for the Long Bow aspect of it, but they are always so slow and heavier and I'm not as strong as I once was (particularly when equipped w/ all the add-ons).

I agree with you on the target/hunting practice using the same bow. I would be doing the same because I only have enough money for (1) bow and that's why it needs to be all around excellent. Screw Hunger Games, for me it's all about Robin Hood :D

After taking into account your advice on the ATA length, I re-adjusted my list to the following:
APA- Mamba X8
Bear- Anarchy**
Bowtech- Insanity CPXL**
G5- Impact (assuming my DL is no more than 30"), Centroid LR (actually looks better than I 1st thought)
Hoyt- Spider 34 LD *** (I just really like this one, can't explain it)
Martin- Nemesis 35, Scepter V (actually not bad speed for such a big bow)
Matthews- MR6*, MR7*
Mission- Voyager XT
Obsession- Lethal Force II ( though I still like the Knightmare, but DL is still a question/problem)

* = degree of favoritism.

 

Please do yourself a favor and add the G5 Prime Impact to that list. 340fps is the speed. I know I said stray away from a short brace height bow but, this bow seriously does not shoot like one. Probably due to the Parallel cam technology.

Just a small piece of advise, your probably going to be in the ballpark of 30". Don't worry about speed. Here is why. A friend of mine shoots a bow rated for 340. He has a 28" DL. My bow is made by the same company an rates at 330. I am a 29" just one inch over his. My bow shoots the same weight arrow at 291. His is at around 280 or so now if I remember correctly and our weights were the same. both maxed out 60lb bows maxing around 63lb. Most of today's bows are above 310. The average DL archer never sees anywhere near the IBO speeds. Proper arrow set up with the proper Broadhead, any flag ship bows would be more than enough.

You have some great bows listed there. Out of your list my personal favorite was the Insanity CPXL.

I shoot a G5 Prime Centroid. It's a little over 34" ATA. My last bow was a Hoyt Carbon Element.

About weight, light weight is much over rated. I'm not saying shoot an 8lb finish weight bow by any means but, don't be scared of a 4.2 or 4.3lb bow. Once you get accurate at close distances and start shooting longer distance, you will appreciate the little extra weight. I added almost a pound to my element before it was a good solid holding bow.

Go shoot this list of bows you have.

 

Just saw you have the Impact listed. Not sure how I overlooked that. I would shoot it before you buy though. Be willing to wait or it though. I think it's around 8-12 weeks out on orders depending on what you order. Pretty popular bow right now.

If you can fin an Athens dealer, the Aflixtion is a great shooting longer ATA bow also. 35" I believe.

Those made the top 2 on my list of Flag ship bows.

 

Welcome
I have a Brute X and it's a great bow. Briefly, I picked up a bow two years ago at 36yrs old and shot my first deer in December. Practice shooting non stop and ask tons of questions.....even ones you may feel are stupid ask anyway. Also watch hunting shows, youtube clips, it all helps you to see deer movement and real life hunt situations. Best of luck to you

 

SP1,

I have heard from many that the BruteX is much more bow than the money paid for it. I am just still unsure of my exact DL and if it is over 30" the Brute won't work for me, plus it is only 31" ATA which I am not too fond of. As far as the hunting videos, I love watching them. I grew up on National Geographic (vhs w/ the awesome narration) and was impatiently waiting for my next one as a kid. I have seen all the Bowhunt or Die vids and they rule (can't wait for next season's shows). What always makes me laugh a little is how jacked-up they all get after they have just shot. They all are breathing like they just ran 10 blocks and almost (if not) shaking. I know I will not fully understand until I take down my first deer/animal (not into killing wolves and coyotes, as I like canines too much, unless of course in danger from one or many). Which brings me to another question. Do most bowhunters carry a sidearm for that specific purpose? I think I will/would if I can get my permit (NJ is a ***** to get one). Thank you for replying. I love the friendliness of this site, it's fantastic!

 

StringnStick,

I have looked at the Afflixion in passing as I read people's reviews of it and just quickly checked it out. But now that I have really read through its specs and description it does indeed look really (really) good... and the price is very good to boot (predator brown sounds interesting too)! Man, I need to make more money! I want them all! I may have pokemon-itis, not sure :D

Update: Apparently, according to Athen's website, Targeteers (which is the closest and best pro-shop near me) sells/carries/can get their bows, but I'm not sure how good they (both Athens and Targeteers) are with updating their distributor lists as, Targeteer's actual website doesn't list them as a carried product. Weird? Guess I'll just have to call and check for myself.

 

I know I've never had issues holding true with a short ATA bow, and if you ever intend to be in a treestand, you'll cuss that 34 or 38 inch bow until you come down. Again, its all personal preference. I like a shorter bow, it makes transport, tree use, and spot and stalk that much simpler without having to worry about your bow catching stuff.

Before we can really suggest ANY bows, you need to be fitted and find out where your DL sits. And as far as the wanting ATA and DL for speed thing goes, don't fall for the speed trap. Speed helps, but there are a lot of archers shooting much slower than modern bows keeping a freezer full with them. Speed helps in the aspect of getting an arrow in an animal with less chance of jumping the string and the like, but shot placement and penetration are what matters to most folks. Ted Nugent hunts with a 45lb bow, and I bet he hasn't bought beef for years!

All this being said, first thing is first. Get measured and see what your measured DL feels like. Make sure that your measured DL feels right, you'd be surprised how many folks measure longer than their comfortable DL.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

Also, I may be out on a limb here, but I've been assuming that your name comes from the WoW hunter.skill?

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

Jamesinator,

I get what you are saying and as you also said everything is still up in the air due to my lack of DL measurement/fitting. I may actually end up being comfortable with something 34 or below if circumstance permits, but we will only know once I get a chance to hit up Targeteers.

In terms of the speed trap, the only real reason it concerns me is for when my setup is complete and all the factors are put together (arrow & BH weight/fletching style and so on) so that despite any additions, there is still a good amount (298+ fps) speed left. I have read that manufacturers tend to over-estimate (lie) about their actual IBO's. From what was written, it is usually a good idea to undercut their measurements by 10-15 fps to come up with a speed that is more realistic. So I want (ideally) my arrow to move at fast speed and carry a hefty punch with it.

Ted Nugent is badass, he's Ted Nugent. He's like a mix of Neil Young, George Thorogood and Robin Hood. That's like a sushi roll filled with TnT.

In other news, I have made (2) separate lists of bows. One is for a DL of 30- and the other for a DL of 30+. I have listed all the bows that interest me from various companies and am now going to narrow it down even further by specific features that I like/make bow-life easier/cost (self-adjustability, materials, etc.) and see where that gets me. When I finish, I will post'em and y'all can let me know what you think.

 

Jamesinator,

Was that a bowhunting pun :D

Though I did play WoW, years ago, I was always a melee class (Warrior, etc.). As much as people like to make fun of it, it is a really great game. But, to me, the best part of the game is also the worst, the people. Most were just aholes and I just grew tired of it. Because no matter how far you get solo, it is nothing near what you can accomplish in a group, but enough of that.

I actually was just trying to find a name that wasn't taken (and archery associated) and as the quote below my signature says, people just call/called me Black [though I am not actually black and quite far from it in reality]. It all started w/ my older brother and his reference to my dark (dry) sense of humor/personality, it kinda just stuck and I grew to like it.

 

Haha, I didn't notice the awful pun there! I played for a bit too, and enjoyed it a great bit. Loved my hunter!

I think you're definitely on the right track, doing your research before you dive in. I'm biased, because I love my BruteX, but don't count PSE out!

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

Jamesinator,

I just took another look at the PSE line-up and all of their bows seem to be in the shorter ATA range. They also have only a few that are 30"+ in the DL area. When I first looked at their wares there was only (2) that I found to be most interested in, the Freak & Omen Max. Even the Evo and the Dream Season DNA are both very short in the ATA despite being (2) of, if not, the most expensive bows in their arsenal.

I don't know if it's just me or the photography that PSE is using, but the bows look very kiddy, almost like the finishes were done in marker or spray paint. No offense to PSE lovers, but that's just how they seem to me. Compare any of the top-priced bows on PSE's site to any of the bows on the Matthew's or Hoyt's product lists and see what I mean.

 

Here is my opinion in longer ATA bows in a stand. Think about this. A 30" ATA bow is only 2" shorter on both ends than a 34" ATA bow. There are only a few things in a mans life that 2" will make or break and being in a tree stand ain't one of them. I have hunted and shot a ton of arrows from a stand and blind from all different distances with bows as long as 38" and have yet to have a single issue. Took my first bow deer at 13yd from a stand 20' up with a 34" bow. I currently hunt with a bow that measures 34"+ with a 10" stab and still, not a single issue. If 2" makes a difference in a hunting situation something else is wrong. Something like tree stand selection or seating position in a stand or blind selection.

It makes a huge difference in shooting and form though, especially for longer DL guys.

That's my opinion and quite a few other guys I know who have hunted and shot for many, many years longer than I have.

 

SticknString,

That is pretty much my opinion. Its more about form and technique. The bow's components just add to that. I'm more concerned w/ the proper fit for my stature and a quality instrument to compliment it, tree-stand or no tree-stand (and I have a decently long way to go before I am skilled enough to take down an animal, besides acquiring a hunting license). For the immediate future, it's all about mastering the art of archery and learning as much about maintaining and tuning my equipment as possible.

 

SticknString,

In taking your advice, I decided to single-out my query.

First, let me start with the Sights. What are the best Brands/Types. I took a look through some archery warehouse-style websites and there are a lot of different brands and styles (3pin, 5pin, 7pin, long range, micro, HD, glowing, w/ Lights), not to mention price ranges. I like the concept of the lit sights/glowing ones and for some reason 5pins or even a long range sight that glows (I will want to be able to shoot past 50 yards when I get my skills up) sounds about right. Other than that, how would I go about choosing one?

 

That's a lot of info asking in one post. My advise is to break it up into different post. One about sight, one about rest and one about Stabilizer. As far a jigs go, Bitz is it. It's definitely the way to go man. The great off set helical debate is a good one. Start a thread on that and see what you get. Same with arrows.

Stabilizers, I'll go ahead an go there. That will depend on the bow. I use a Stokerized as in my opinion is the best fit for both my bow and myself. I have tried many others as none felt as good. You'll just have to pick a bow and then try different stabilizers on it until you find the one you like best.