I'm not sure if this belongs here, or in the Tech Forum or other, so if I need to move it, please let me know. I got my first compound a few months back, and I love it, but seem to be struggling with my form, and especially my draw length. I am a fairly tall guy - about 6'1", and based on fingertip measurements, my draw length should be about 29.5". When I first got this, I had the draw set at 29". After shooting a month or so, it didn't feel right so I took it back in. The guy helping me observed my form and re-set the draw at 27.5." I know among other things, the peep site was also riding a bit high, so he helped me adjust it down. I asked him why if my measurement should have me at 29.5 did he take it down, and his explanation was that the tip to tip should be more of a rule of thumb. Different people have different dimensions between body parts, such as face to fingertips, neck length, etc. Since then, it just doesn't feel right to me. That could be becuase I started getting used to it at the longer draw. Anyways, I took a couple videos today to see if I could get some feedback. The first video is what I believe to be the correct form and anchor points on my body with the draw at 27.5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY7nUDUSdm0 I tried to take a second set. In the second set my left arm is more extended, which is what my inclination tells me it should be. I mean, it is still off the strings, but is straighter. When I made the videos, I was hoping the difference in how straight/non straight my bow arm is would be easier to see. Maybe I need to take some more from more of a frontal angle. Anyways, so in the second set, I also hoped the difference in anchor point would also be obvious, but not sure it is. Obviously if I move my bow arm straighter it should move the anchor on my face. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOTXCHFgnFM If anyone can offer some advice, I'd sure appreciate it, not just with draw length but anything else. My instinct tells me my bow arm needs to be straighter, but just don't know. Clearly, I need to get it set pretty quick so I can settle in and fine tune my form before deer season.
I'm no expert by any means, but your DL looks pretty good in both of those videos. I can tell a slight difference in the extension of your bow arm, but not much. This could just be the angle of the video though. The main key here is that you're comfortable with your form and shooting well with it. Your anchor point looks a little higher than what I'm used to, but again if you're okay with it that's fine. The key is just to be comfortable and consistant. As for your bow arm, they "say" it should be slightly bent at full draw. Not completely straight or over extended. Not sure if that helped at all, but I tried!
My bow arm has a noticeable bend in it. You don't want it fully extended as Justin eluded to. One thing I noticed in both videos is that the top of your bow torques back at each shot, possibly indicating an issue with your grip. Try to loosen your fingers on your bow hand. That's what I saw, but like JZ said, there are others on the site that will have a much better look!
your form is pretty good from what i could see. the only thing that bothered me was your hand wrapped around your grip like that. i suggest you let your grip hand hang, and put the riser in the pocket of your hand
Gents - Thanks for the quick responses. Hopefully some others chime in also. This is the kind of thing that for me, the more advice the better. Thanks for reminding me about the grip and the torque. I kind of now this is a problem, but in trying to iron out my other issues with form, I tend to forget. As for the anchor point, in my first video, I am trying to take right where the release attaches to the D Loop and put that in the corner of my mouth. Not sure if that is right, or if it should be further back. I may try and do some other videos ofver the weekend showing the bend in my arm. It just seems to much to me. I had some early advice to 'do what feels natural' but since I don't have any experience, I am not sure what is supposed to feel natural. Maybe i am overthinking it.
I myself am no expert at all but, I have been going through the form training thing for a few months and finally have mine nailed down. Everyone who watched this and everyone that is fixing to please look at a few key things I noticed. I studied them for a good 30 min. watching them over and over. Anchor points: The only true anchor I see you using is your cheek. In my experiences and also with others on here's advise and form videos, the more anchor points the better off you are. I personally have the tip of my nose, corner of my mouth, cheek and my knuckle under my ear lobe. Release aid: It may not be but, I swear in the videos (both of them) it looks like it is a little too loose. What I mean is, it is to far out from your index finger. You want it to be between your first and second knuckle from the end of your finger. DL: way to short. this is throwing everything else off. Grip: as stated above to tight. Let go! shoot it opened handed. You are using a wrist sling so you definitely wont drop the bow. I don't use one at all and I have yet to drop mine. I was doing gripping way to tight when I first started and I couldn't keep a consistent pattern for crap. Shooting opened handed was the one thing that improved my patterns the most. Drawing method: When you draw your bow back, keep your elbow raised high. This causes you too use back muscles rather than arm muscles when drawing. Keeps your bow from creeping as badly because you are using back muscles instead of pure arm strength. You can also tell a difference in the amount of time you can hold the bow at full draw. If your DL was proper, your string would be across the tip of your nose and the corner of you mouth. You would then be able to have your release aid adjusted tighter thus putting your trigger between the first and second knuckle from the tip of your finger. Doing this keeps you from anticipating the shot and jerking. This was another problem I had. These were all problems I had except my draw length was adjusted too long. Make sure that grip is open. That was the biggest improvement I made hands down. I watched both videos side by side. Thats one of the things I love about windows 7. The second shot of the first video was the closest I saw to you anchor points being where most people have them. IMO, your draw length should have probably stayed where it was or at least close. Like I said I am no expert but, these are things I observed.
One more thing. Your peep looks a little to high. That would also help out getting those anchor points to where they should be. I meant to include this video link in the last post. It was verry helpful to me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iApqJA41WP0
Read this book! Bowhunters guide to accurate shooting by Lon Lauber. Highly recomend it it helped me out a lot. Covers stance, draw length, grip, back tension and more. I now shoot groups at sixty yards I used to shoot at twenty.
Thanks again for the advice, and hope to get more. That was an excellent video. I will probably watch it a few times over the next few days. I think you are right on the single anchor. I am primarily anchoring in one spot. Just don't know enough yet to try multiple anchors. You are also right on the release. I was trying to copy a rifle trigger pull and have always tried with firearms to keep the trigger on the first pad of the finger, so thats what I have been doing. As for the draw, the reason I have been drawing that way is based on where I am practicing. Since I am in my backyard, I was trying not to do anything that elevates the plane of the arrow past a degree where it might escape my yard. When this bow was set at 27 in, the draw and sustained hold was very easy, so I have just been drawing that way. Tonight, on a whim, I decided to go ahead and move it back to 29 in, just to get a feel for it. I actually thought it was at 27.5, but there aren't any half inch settings that I could see. I was surprised in how much additional resitence this seemed to put on the draw. Seems like much more strength is required to draw and hold it. I guess I thought when it was moved down, and so much easier that I had just develped the appropriate muscles. I did not adjust the draw stop, and not sure but don't think it was adjusted when I went from 29 to 27 before. Is this additional resistance normal for moving draw length, or is something else out of sync here? I don't know if I will try and move down to 28, or leave it at 29. Either way, I am going to try some practice this weekend and may try and shoot some more video.
Just remember to take your time and go over every single part of it in your head before you release. I am kind of concerned about that peep being to high. Good luck with it. I really enjoyed learning how to shoot and am continuing to learn how to improve and be more consistent. Oh one more thing, Welcome to the bow hunting world!!
I looked at the first video and really nothing looks terrible. First, you have a steady hand and that is very promising. The only thing I can see that should help 100% is to lose the death grip and replace it by a light loose grasping grip. Your anchor also looks a tad high to me but that is just my preference. I anchor along my jaw line and use a kisser button for my string. The base of my thumb is anchored at the bottom of my ear and the kisser in the corner of my mouth. The string is also touching the tip of my nose on the right. I have lowered the poundage on my release trigger to about 3#.
Gents - OK, I made some changes and have a new video. Let's see how I am doing. First, I watched the link someone provided, which was very helpful. I had looked on youtube several times, but never found that one, and it was great. Second, I took the draw length to 28. I tried 29, but it seemed to give me some tension in my neck that I didn't care for. I did not adjust my peep since I figured extending the draw would lower it some. In my form I also tried a few things. First, during the draw tried a slightly different form hoping to transfer more to my back. Second, I tried to lower my anchor point down into my cheek and also use the corner of my mouth and my nose. I think my nose is just too small though, I couldn't get comfortable getting it on the string. I also tried to really loose up my grip and keep the bow steady after the shot. I also moved the release to the second pad on my trigger finger. I ran through a couple groups, and had very nice tight patterns. I got out the video camera and run through some more. What you see here are actually my 3rd and 6th groups all together (since I didn't film the first two). For some reason, maybe fatigue, my 4th and 5th were a bit erratic and I was able to pull back together in the 6th, and I also show that grouping on the target. I also tried to modify the camera angle. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53WkX9tME_s I am still not sure that 28 is my appropriate DL, since I still feel more of a bend in my bow arm. According to the video, the bow arm should be nearly straight. I also think I am having a hard time anchoring on my cheek. Maybe its not sensitive enough or something, but I just feel its hard to get consistent. I am thinking in the cold of hunting season, that might even be worse especially as I like to wear a mask. I am thinking I might need a kisser button since I think the edge of my mouth might be easier for me. Anyways, as before, any and all feedback is appreciated.
Looking good. I tried a kisser and actually used one for a couple months. Doesn't sound like a long ime but, I shoot at minimum 200 shots a week. I aim for closer to 500 a week so I shot a good bit with it. After the kisser turned and felt like it almost cut the side of my mouth I decided to take it off. My anchors stayed the same and I now do fine without it. Another thing I started having to focus on that has become second nature was ligning the sight ring on the sight up evenly with the peep sight. this improved my patterns even more. The more you shoot the less you will have to think about it all. When it comes time to release an arrow at a deer you will be confident of your shot. I meant to ask you, how long have you been shooting and what distance it your target set out at?
I pondered getting a bow for about 4 years and never did. Mostly probably becuause typically i was so succesful during rifle season. Last year however, was terrible, and had I been bow hunting, I am convinced I would have done excellent. I live in Kansas, and where I hunt, I am convinced the rut cycle was off by about 10 to 15 days too long. So, instead of rifle season being second rut, they were just ending 1st rut and basically shut down. I like to try and take 3 to 4 deer a year. My family prefers wild game (deer, turkey, fish) over store bought. I can probably count the number of times we bought beef at the grocery store on both hands over the last 3 or 4 years, until this year. So, with 2010 season being so bad, and me just wanting to build a new skill and extend my time in the field, I finally did it. I think I got this bow the last week of March. I actually had some equipment malfunction the first few weeks and my rest broke, so I had to take it in and get that fixed. Then I took it back in again a few weeks after that and thats when it was adjusted down from 29 to 27. In hindsight, I think then the peep site truly was way too high at that time, resulting in really bad form development. I think that the guy taking it down to 27 was because he was watching me, and I just had bad form due to the site being too high, I was drawing back practically to my ear becuase I was moving the whole bow down and back in order to line up my peep. He actually moved it down then. I am shooting right now at 20 yards. The max I think I can get out of my backyard is maybe 30 yards. I am thinking about hanging a tree stand in my yard tomorrow so I can start getting used to that, but not sure cause I don't want to freak out my neighbors too bad. I had a few weeks were I was really able to concentrate, and then I would be shooting more than a hundred shots a day. I had actually backed off the last couple weeks due to work travel since about Memorial day. My first dozen arrows, I have actually pretty much shot them up and need some new ones. I could probably get new vanes on them, but not sure I want to mess with that right now. That is partially why I have been extra focused on draw length. I don't want to get new arrows, have them cut then figure out that they are too short. I think I might try a kisser with kind of the logic that it will help me get habits established. I still can't tell if the peep is still a bit high. I think it might be, but will give it a few days before adjusting.
Dave, first off, best of luck to you. Here is a tip to practice a little "treestand" shooting. If you think getting up in a tree will freak your neighbors out, here is what you do. If you have a 6 foot ladder or a platform ladder (for painting and such), put it about 2 to 3 yards from your target. Shoot from 4-6 feet of elevation. That will force you to bend your waist just like you would shooting from 18 feet high at a target 10-15 yards away. I found it to be good practice for me. I have been doing it the past month at the beginning and end of every practice session (6-8 arrows total). I shot from elevation at 15 yards the other day and had no problem making the transition. Good luck.
I like what I see at 28" but draw length is subjective to the archer only. I nor anyone else can tell you what it should be but your form is pretty good for hunting. If you were trying to get ready for vegas, I would advise slightly longer. I don't like the low draw. Trying getting the bow up and being close to on target when you get drawn. Now for the problem. Your grip in the last video is changing from shot to shot and you are trying to correct it after you get drawn. Get the grip relaxed and properly positioned before you draw and don't move it once you anchor.
