Again, another classic example of circular arguments. Next, your going to say, "how is this an example, somebody, (not I), will explain it, on and on it goes. Later, you might say the same statement.
If you think you have the answers to all questions, BC, and that every question about God can be explained (and you honestly feel you've done that).......then I see where you might feel that way. Pardon me, though, if I ask a question...........until it's answered. Here is an example of my questions being answered. Again.....it's all me as to why I keep asking them....right? I apologize to you guys. It's me. You guys compartmentalize evolution into something you can dismiss. How is that a circular argument (my above)? You do the same with the people who have and never will know Christ.....going to hell. I could go on and on.
I for one do not question the Bible or God directly. I just happen to question some people's interpretation of God & the Bible (including my own!). Why? The devil sows seeds in God field as well. The roots of both "Truth" and "Deception" are intertwined so much, that plucking the "Deception" would damage the "Truth". By searching for answers, we can try and identify the weeds from the crops. Jesus calls us into relationship with himself. I cannot Love someone without getting to know Him. I get to know people by spending time with them and asking them all sorts of questions. I cannot rely on what someone tells me about someone else.
That last paragraph is very powerful fitz. You and I have alot in common when it comes to this subject. I refrain from the topic because I would get to wordy and no one would read it anyway. Amen Brother...Amen
This is true. That is why we must rely on God's word. I dont undestand how you get that Fitz. Are you saying that deception is intertwined with "the" Truth (God's Word), or just the world's perception of truth? I am just curious, because I can not find any deception in the Word of God. In the field, yes. In God's word, I don't think so. Amen. I agree with this completely. He said in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word became flesh and dwelt among men, the same Word that was in the beginning was God. (I probably mis-quoted a little) That tells me that if we study the Word, we are studying and getting to know God. After all, He is the Word. You inspire me sometimes Fitz.
'Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,' the student continues. 'Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?' Now uncertain, the professor responds, 'Of course, there is. We see it Everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in The multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world.. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.' To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God.. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.' So is that saying there is not really a devil and evil (the devil) is just the absence of having God in your heart?
"Jesus calls us into relationship with himself." So before Jesus calls us into a relationship, where do we exist in the whole going to heaven hierarchy? If before Jesus can call us into a relationship with himself we are unexpectedly run over by a train and decapitated, where does that leave us?
I would be in trouble, wife had bible study at our house tonight for ladies. When I walked in my first thought was all these moms are hot. Then I thought I am going to hell, but the moms were hot. Told the wife when it ended I need to be saved, could I stay next time, she made me do the dishes
satan (the devil) is very real. satan is a fallen angel...angels were created by God. satan revolted against God and he and the angels that sided with him were cast out of Heaven. I don't believe satan and evil are one and the same. Evil may be described as the absence of God. And from that I would say that all who are fallen suffer from a degree of evil (absence of God). Satan is fallen and he suffers from a degree of evil. Man is fallen and he/she also suffers from evil. Personally, I am working to do the following… The point is to turn away from your evil, twisted, and sinful ways and turn to God/Jesus. One day, I hope to be in the presence of God. Check out EPHESIANS 6:10-19
Bear, thank you for your explanation. Why in the heck would God allow some angel that he created to revolt against him and create so much chaos and evil in the world? Doesn't God have the power over life and death? Couldn't he have put this evil angel down with the snap of his fingers?
Fitz, you know I respect your opinion on this stuff. I have a few questions... What if you get to know him and don't love him? Have you loved everyone you have ever met? What if you have differences you can't overcome? It sounds like arranged marriage, does it not? Since I have had the opportunity to get to know God, and choose not to believe, am I a product of the devil? Why am I doomed? Did I ever have a chance? Did God put me here to test those with faith? Maybe that is my sacrifice, and when I die and go to heaven, he explains the whole mission to me. Maybe I am just a pawn? Okay, so I guess I had more than a few. The questions just kept leading to more questions. Hook and I will save you a seat at the bar, in hell. Hope you like warm Miller Lite. Its all they have on tap.
What I'm saying is that for roughly 1500 years, the Bible has been used by some to justify: slavery, polygamy, Wars, domination over women, oppression of gays & lesbians. The Bible is no more the problem than "guns" being a problem. It's not the weapon, but the person who wields the weapon that you need to be cautious of. Look, I know and love my brother and dad very much! I trust them in the woods like no other. But when its rifle season, and we a walking together, I am always cautious of whats going on with their rifles.... ... maybe even more important for me as of late, is watching who I'm pointing at with mine! You never know when it can go off right?! So we can't just go waiving it around at anything and everything. I don't know how this "hierarchy" as you put it works. I don't think anyone knows. Only He is responsible for judgement. I don't think that Jesus says one day, "I'll call Joe today." I think it's like this. He's always calling us. Always. We just can't hear him all the time. Like radio waves. They are constantly moving about. Going through walls. in the air we breathe. Bouncing off my pea brain. But you can't see them. You can't feel them. You can't hear them unless you have a radio. It takes those waves and turns them into audible sounds. Sometimes my radio works, and the signal seems clear. Sometimes it doesn't work or there is too much 'noise' and it drowns out the transmission. Some times I've got it on the wrong channel completely. Looking back at my life, I now see many times that God was calling me, but at the time my radio I was building wasn't picking up the signal. I'm sure that in 5 years I'll look back at my life now and think, 'how did I not see that he was trying to tell me "this"? ' Oh, I think it's more of a HAM radio than a AM/FM radio. I also find that I tend to transmit, far more than I try to receive Not sure on this, but I think there is more going on than we could ever know. The way I understand it is that there is as spiritual battle raging. A War for humanity. If you have complete control over someone, you cannot be at War with them? If God doesn't have complete control over me (ie. freewill), I guess I can believe that he doesn't have control over Satan. Again, referring to Jesus' parable of the weeds in the field. He says that they cannot destroy the weeds because in doing so, they would kill the crop. They will instead wait for the harvest, and sort everything out then.
Thank you Fitz. So is the devil real in a literal sense? I had a religion course in college and the professor was also a Catholic Priestess. She told us that the Devil and hell were infused into the Biblical writings when Christianity fused (took in other parts) of another religion of the time. I am trying to think of the other religion, it may be Zoroastrianism.
I know the question wasn't pointed to me, but this reminds me of a CS Lewis passage. In his book, mere Christianity, he explains how many use the excuse, that they have to understand everything before coming to Christ. He goes on to give examples after examples how we don't do this in our lives. He explains we eat food, without understanding how every protien is processed. He breath air and may not fully understand every aspect of how how oxygen fuels our cells. We would use a table to hold our drink or etc., without understanding the cell composition of wood. He was an extremely powerful writer and probably one of the best resources at articulating his thoughts on Christianity. Romans 12:3 tells us not to think too much of ourselves, because God as dealt each one a measure of faith. You might not be far off with your thinking, but I wouldn't want to take that chance if it was me. CS Lewis also explains his thoughts on how it could be possible, a prude, as he put it could sit in church everyday, growing up in the church, being self righteous, never having to overcome any obsticles in life, could be closer to hell than a person who grew up with brutality thier whole life, and go out of thier way to do a good deed in the name of God. You are asking the age old question that I have too have asked. Why does others have faith and I do not. Or it seems God picks and chooses, which leads people down the road of the idea of predestination. Tough questions, wished I had a good answer. I don't know why he picked me.
Thanks for posting this Tony! I am not sure why everyone takes everything they read as fact... I read the OP and never once thought that this story was a factual event. I took it as someone writing a story to make a point... and I think it was thought provoking. As for those of you saying that the "theory" of evolution is a fact... you might want to keep in mind that no scientist or professor worth anything will tell you that it is indeed a theory and has not been proven to be fact. Please remember that when we talk about evolution, we are talking about one species changing into another. Adaptation is another thing entirely, and yes, we all know that animals adapt.
forgive me for not reading this post in it's entirety.... has anyone seen the movie The Sunset Limited?"
