More Deep Thoughts about Good and Evil

A Must Read. Take your time and be sure to read to the end.




Science

"Let me explain the problem science has with religion."




The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

'You're a Christian, aren't you, son?'

'Yes sir,' the student says.

'So you believe in God?'

'Absolutely '

'Is God good?'

'Sure! God's good.'

'Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?'

'Yes'

'Are you good or evil?'

'The Bible says I'm evil.'

The professor grins knowingly. 'Aha! The Bible! He considers for a moment. 'Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?'

'Yes sir, I would.'

'So you're good...!'

'I wouldn't say that.'

'But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't.'

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. 'He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Can you answer that one?'

The student remains silent. 'No, you can't, can you?' the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. 'Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?'

'Er..yes,' the student says.

'Is Satan good?'

The student doesn't hesitate on this one.. 'No.'

'Then where does Satan come from?'

The student falters. 'From God'

'That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?'

'Yes, sir.'

'Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?'

'Yes'

'So who created evil?' The professor continued, 'If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.'

Again, the student has no answer. 'Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?'

The student squirms on his feet. 'Yes.'

'So who created them ?'

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. 'Who created them?' There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. 'Tell me,' he continues onto another student. 'Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?'

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. 'Yes, professor, I do.'

The old man stops pacing. 'Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?'

'No sir. I've never seen Him.'

'Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?'

'No, sir, I have not.'

'Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?'

'No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't.'

'Yet you still believe in him?'

'Yes'

'According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist... What do you say to that, son?'

'Nothing,' the student replies.. 'I only have my faith.'

'Yes, faith,' the professor repeats. 'And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.'

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. 'Professor, is there such thing as heat? '

' Yes.

'And is there such a thing as cold?'

'Yes, son, there's cold too.'

'No sir, there isn't.'

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. 'You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit down to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy.. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.'

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

'What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?'

'Yes,' the professor replies without hesitation. 'What is night if it isn't darkness?'

'You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?'

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. 'So what point are you making, young man?'

'Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.'

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. 'Flawed? Can you explain how?'

'You are working on the premise of duality,' the student explains.. 'You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought.' 'It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.' 'Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?'

'If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.'

'Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?'

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

'Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?'

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided. 'To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.' The student looks around the room. 'Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?' The class breaks out into laughter. 'Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so.. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.' 'So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?'

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable. Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. 'I Guess you'll have to take them on faith.'

'Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,' the student continues. 'Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?' Now uncertain, the professor responds, 'Of course, there is. We see it Everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in The multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world.. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.'

To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God.. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.'

The professor sat down.

 

Interesting piece Tony. Thanks, it appears Albert Einstein was terribly vexed when it came to God. He seemed to struggle with it until he died.

 

As long as one doesn't try to describe or define God, there's no struggle.



May The Sheep Be With You

 

Nice little story but it just isn't true .

http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp

 

I really could give a flip who wrote it ... it was good stuff ..... I made the necessary edits on the OP....

 

That all depends, now doesn't it? What if this completely made up story went the other way and the "atheist professor" made "einstein" look like a total idiot. Would it still be "good stuff"?

 

Anything that give glory to God is "good stuff". Anything that does not is well, easily, "bad stuff". Its really that simple and our belief system. At least mine.

Its not quite unusual for humans to gravitate to ideals that are aligned with out own. Hense the reason the professor looks like a buffoon. Where I am sure a person who puts all his faith in human understanding of science as we know it, would move more towards the typical arguements, that we have faith in an invisble man.

 

Agreed. What bugs me is when something completely made up is presented as factual and used to support your (anyone's, not you or Tony) ideals. For the record it bugs me both ways and in that I mean even if someone with the same ideals as myself were to present some made up BS as fact it would bug me. Likely, it would bug me more because, IMO, when falsities are presented as factual it actually undermines and cheapens the ideal, belief, whatever.

 

Thank you. IMO, even going as far as the fictitious student went was lending credibility to the professor's "arguments".

He should have just said...."If I have to explain it...............................you wouldn't understand".

 

Evolution is a fact.

 

I agree. There's really no question about it.

I also believe that God is a fact. But I don't accept the image of God as a Grandfather in the sky.

 

then prove it!! Evolution makes NO sense .... I have NEVER understood how people could believe that ... but whatever .... we will all know 100% one day ....

 

Why? Because somebody told you it was? And somebody told him it was? Or her. On and on? Or have you done your own professional research?

I am in the science community we can't even agree on the here and now. But you expect them to agree on something they can't even reproduce?

You want to see some argueing, go to OFC in LA next week. You will engineers and scientist argue about experiments we can do now.

 

I have to admit, I get tired or recieving the same email from different people showing some mountain lion killed in East PA or Eastern Shore of MD. Or one I got recently depicted a Islamic stoning, when actually it was Kurdish.

So I understand your point. But out of this story, many things I learned and enjoyed.

 

This is like arguing that the earth is flat, guys.

If you truly hold the belief that evolution is a scientific farce......then, IMO, any further conversation on this subject is beyond futile.

 

Why, because you read it from a guy who has a Ph.D? One has to understand different classifications of evolution. Particularly, micro, and macro evolution.

For instance, you have deer in Canada who are typically larger, stronger, and more resistent to disease than ones on Flordia. This is one type of evolution that understood, and observed. Or when you breed strong willed, high endurance agressive dogs over and over, you might get a fighting dog. You might have a small genetic drift, they call it.

But the idea that humans came from a fish, or a bird, no way. I tell you why. Why are most humans average size? Almost 99% same anatomy? Why don't we have small little humans 2ft tall? Or even smaller? Sure, they have found some folks on the low end of the hieght scale on a few islands. But nothing like primates. Where you so many varieties. From a silverback to a small spider monkey. Or just look at bears, and all the variety. If it was purely random, we would expect some humans to have 4 arms maybe. Or claws. But all over the earth, pretty common in ability, size, etc (if you consider types of food intake).

I had one lady argue, that asians where so much smaller than Wasps. I was rather shocked, when I had to point out that her son who was raised in the US is over 6ft 3" and she and her husband was less than 5'6".

Then you got the skills of a human. People try to explain that others have simular skills, like a monkey using a rock to open a nut. But there again, humans are so vasty ahead of all animals when it comes to ability to think, use tools, make a circuit board, type on a message board.

 

I stopped right there.

Why some Christians make this out to be an either/or (when discussing evolution) is beyond me.

It's a false dichotomy.

 

This is nothing to do with Christian doctrine.

Believe me, I went down this same road many years ago as you. I just happened to be in the scientific community and see how things really go down with peer reviewed research. If its not driven by money, your not going to get far. And evolution theory is not a money maker.

If we as scientist built assumptions based off of the original assumption, and stopped there, you wouldn't be able to type on this forum right now.

Most folks, like yourself I assume, thinks it has to be true. They have a Ph.D in this. Wouldn't someone have called thier bluff by now? Thats the beauty of it. Nobody can disprove. like yourself.

So, you believe because someone told you so. Unless you have done your own research. I will be happy to read thru it?

 

So, you're telling me the world isn't round?

 

Nope,

So are you telling us in your off time, your a cross dresser?