Have you made them already? What scents are you guys using? I saw that Justin and Duke used Kishels in the past and was planning on picking some up this week.
Mock scapes in july? wow your chompin at the bit a little. I am buying extension cords to run some a/c to my stand...just a window unit.
If they use them year around as most say. I see no problem with making one in early august. An A/C would be awesome on some of those early hunts...someone needs to invent a A/C Body Suit.
I did not use Kishels.. as JZ I think may have. I use Mrs. Doe Pee doe urine and buck urine.. combined with James Valley scent on the over hanging branches. I'll be starting my one once again either this weekend or the next. I don't think the product matters as much as the location and entry/exit though.. so make sure you have a sound one at that. Makes no sense to walk into your woods if all your doing is scenting it up.
I see. The video i watched showed justin using it and i thought he mentioned you filming thats what i was referring to. Thanks for the info, i appreciate it
I didn't. The effectiveness of that scrape was its location (next to does and a water source).. which meant for a practically scent free approach each time I freshened it.. which was about every 7-10 days until late September. The last 80-90 yards to the scrape I waded through a shallow pond.. and my scrape was only about 6 or 7 steps from that ponds edge. It allowed me easy access from the water.. and back in once I was done. The deer never knew I was there I don't think.. which was key to this scrapes effectiveness. Hopefully I can reproduce the same magic this season. We'll see.
I use and have had great success with Buck Fever Synthetics, pre/post urine, forehead gland scent combo and the rut urine during the peak of the rut. Its a great product, infinite shelf life, never rots like most protein based collected scents. I have been using it for 13 years now and continue to condition deer year after year to hit these scrapes in a bigwoods mountain settting. Mostly public lands.
Shed, in which type of locations are you placing these scrapes? Even though you hunt much bigger expanses of woods I feel that many of your hunting spots are like mine...rolling hardwoods, no crop fields, and an endless amount of bedding areas. It can make it very tough to pattern anything. Although I am not a call or scent guy I am interested in your approach to creating and maintaining scrapes to entice bucks to use them each year. Thanks for any hints. Duke, I have read some of your stuff as well but would be very interested in your methodology as well. I am talking the fine details of what you do in regards to mock scrapes. I have killed a couple of 2.5 year old bucks at or around scrapes but nothing any older. I would like to know how you bring the older boys in at the right time. Thanks guys.
VS jump in the whitetail thread, I have a lot of info on my 2010 whitetail forcast as to where I am setting up my mock scraping areas and I am getting a ton of action right now. 21 bucks so far on 3 scrapes... a few real good bucks, especially for the caliber I have here, still looking for a giant though. I am running 10 mock scrapes right now will expand that to about 20 by August 15th. I dont know how to put this any simpler as far as where my set ups are places. I am deep in the mountains, where terrain features, feed, cover, water, trails and of course big buck sign all come together. Basically right on the edges of or in big bedding areas. I've had great luck on benches where ridges run together and start to flatten out a bit. Its steep out here in a lot of places and these big bucks use the elevation to perch themselves up, then the slide down to these hidden timber/brushy benches and feed and snoop around in the day time. These places are where I almost always find preexisting communtiy scrapes while shed hunting in the spring, I over mark them with BF synthetics and then I always start my own scrape really close to a community hub scrape... These hubs always have a wagon wheel of trails decending and ascending to and from the scrape. I simply become another buck added into the equation that the other bucks never see but smell .. The key is being extremely clean. Rubber boots, showers, latex gloves .. I NEVER go in or touch one anymore without those three intangibles. My daytime trail cam pics are through the roof this year and I havent even checked half of my cameras yet..all of which have scrapes set up that Put in back in early June. BF's forhead gland scent is amazing on the licking branches.. bucks really wont paw much right now or piss in a scrape but ALL deer will hit that licking year around. I have the pix that prove it. I cant keep the elk or bears out either.. A bear torm my scrape dripper down last week and tried eating it. Elk try to pull them out of my trees.. But them most important is I am getting return visits by big mature bucks in the daylight day after day after day.. It was never that way when I used to try and set them up on clearcut edges etc.. everything I am targeting right now is in deep, way off the beaten path.. exactly where big bucks feel comfortable because they just dont get the pressure they would near roads or accessible skidder trails.. I believe my scrapes that i have yet to check will produce just like the 3 I have so far. By the end of next week I should all but 2 checked.. a couple of mine are 60-70 miles away with cameras running.
Shed I really appreciate you taking the time to type that out. I also read the whitetail thread as well. Are these the types of areas you are talking about as in "benches" where the terrain flattens out for a bit creating a shelf that is easier for a buck to walk?
VS, I can show you a topo map of where I hunt and there would be numerous benches scattered all over the terrain, a lot like yours, but unless in there on foot and walk it and access the sign, trails, scrapes rubs you name it, 9 out of 10 of the benches that look good on a topo map would be worthless. So I look for the complete package, thick brush on the benches, timber, water, or water close by, scrapes, hubs where trails intersect, finger ridges running together onto a flatter bench, the right kind of native vegetation for year around feed, and finally it is almost always a tough walk in that the normal joe wouldnt bother hoofing it too to hunt for a deer, especially during bow season. I have to do this on foot. On foot is the only way to imo to rule out some of those great looking benches on a map that are weak in sign, feed, water cover ..etc...I shed hunt and cover a lot of ground, when I start finding concentrations of mature buck sheds in an area that has all of the above mentioned sign and terrain features too boot, then I know I am in a whitetail buck hangout. Deer dont walk on water or air, they leave sign and lots of it if you know what your looking for. Like I said often on a topo map they all look the same, like a bench.. the key is hoofing into all of them and find the one or two with all the other key aspects that make bucks want to live there year around. I used to hunt clear cut edges a lot and did pretty good, but I believe hunting, deeper and more remote in "my" country is going to offer me more mature bucks walking around during the daylight, they simply feel more comfortable in these places. I have SEVERAL of them staked out so I wont over hunt a great bedding area ... this is key too..finally I add in the scrapes so I can get bucks to hunt me, come to my stand and frequent it. I start conditioning them when they are kicked off their mommas as 1/5s and some make it around to 4 and older.. I'd love to walk your grounds with you, from walking so much ground, trial error the past 30 years of whitetail hunting, making mistakes, learning from them, I have a feel for where bucks are bedding, its funny I will get into an area and just know its right as I begin to process all the info and my trail cams are starting to show me that I am getting the areas right. I honestly do not care one bit about night time trail cam pix anymore, they are nice but worthless to me until I can get that buck or bucks to visit during the day. Case in point, I moved a trail cam and scrape this year about 100 yards from a side bench off of a ridge up onto the main ridge where it flattened out, Like night and day the big bucks in there were very comfortable with that scrape WAY more than last years T/C evidence just 100 yards down the mountain.. sometimes thats all it takes to get buck to hit it. I just wasn't deep enough in there to make them want to check it bad enough. I dont know if any of this crosses over into your world, we all hunt different terrains, I hunt bucks in forestland mountains. I'd love to walk your ground with you though, I wish we lived closer I do think I could help decipher bedding areas and if nothing else give another perspective.. Just like Ryan does when he comes out to hunt elk with me. All this to say, benches in my world work great if they have all the other attributes and yes I think as buck get older they like a little less work in regards to not having to climb into the steep chit so much. They like to meander around and feed on these flatter spots. They often run scrape lines along the intesect between the bench and the were the mountain starts to climb, those areas steer deer along naturally. Does here really like benches where the walking and feeding is just easier. I believe the older a buck gets the less he moves from his safe zone, especially when he finds a place that offers him everything he needs right there in his bedding area.
I have walked the entire area to the west of the lake and I have some thoughts about how your preferences for your scrapes will fit into what I have found over the years. I have found a lot of different clues over the years but have not put it all together. It is like I am nerd in possession of the facts but cannot write a coherent research paper. This is one spot of about 3-4 that I am focusing on this year. I have a lot of history hunting this area and have reasons to believe there are big boys in there...
haha just go naked and get someone to paint your body with the tree that would be a lil cheaper anyways haha
I am NO expert on the subject of mock scrapes VS. I have failed more times at it then I'd care to admit.. even gave it up years ago cause I just couldn't get it down. Over that time however.. those past failures along with what I was learning about actual scrapes gave me what ultimately lead to last years scrape.. which needless to say.. saw its successes. Location.. that is the number 1 key. And its easier said then done. The key here is to get a buck to utilize your scrape.. making sure its an area deer are routinely visiting is key! The other number 1 is entry and exit into the mock scrape location. If its not a good one all your going to do is spread your own scent everywhere and thus drive out your deer. Shed has stated that he uses a dripper.. which you may want to highly consider because of your situation. I don't use them because of their over-use where I live. And.. the scrape I made had a scent free entry/exit. I simply walked a pond edge the last 80-90 yards. I was as scent free as you can get... and because of its easy access I could visit it regularly.. every 7-10 days. Now.. if you have all that.. I would highly reccomend starting the scrape early.. to establish to the deer that its there. Like Shed I think its a neccassary step.. I know it means more work.. but killing older deer is... so think of it that way. Lastly.. I (myself) like to think about the scrape and its location to try and figure out what sort of deer I want visiting my scrape. For me.. last seasons scrape worked so well because of what I intended it for.. and that was a place for deer to stop and 'mingle'. I created a mock community scrape. Because my ground was extremely limited and basically on the edge of a large doe groups bedding area I wanted to bring them to me.. and let the bucks follow suit. And because it was a comunity scrape.. I was not afraid of experimenting with different brands of scent products.. this way I figured if one was a gimmick (or cheaply bottled ETC) maybe the other product would work. Although I used Ms. Doe Pee products more than any other because of past conversations I had with other hunters over the years.. or things I read. I made those bucks hunt me. My location was spot on.. where 2 trails met.. one leading to the doe groups bedding and one to the heavy cover of a large marsh where a sporatic amount of bucks tend to bed. My entry/exit was flawless.. because of that pond. My community scrape idea I believe faired very well because of the general situation of the scrapes location (far away from where a dominant buck would be bedding). If I had a older buck bedded closer.. I might have chosen a scrape meant to drag in a dominant buck.. it simply wasn't the case.. and I knew that. A older buck is simply not going to up and bed closer to a scrape (leaving behind his security).. older bucks have scrapes nearer them. I simply did not have one close enough to try and pull in daytime hours. At least.. I think I didn't based on winter scouting. I am no expert VS.. just a dude who stops and thinks a little. Last years successful mock scrape was 2 years worth of sitting on that property formulating the above plan. Ya have to do something while sitting on stand.. might as well think. Hope something here clicks for ya VS.
Duke, thank you very much. I have the pleasure (because I really enjoy it) of hunting around some major water. I already used my kayak this year to cruise in and scout and I believe I will be using it to enter some of my spots this year. I could start a mock scrape in two weeks. And I believe I have a good 2-3 spots to do it based on a synthesis of information from you, Shed, and bukmaster. One of the spots is going to be where all the land kind of comes together to form a pretty cool rut funnel. I am hoping I can create a community scrape in this area to bring something in at the right time. I scouted this spot this year after scouring over the topos and when I hit the spot, I jumped does, and found some major doe trails leading into this spot. The buck beds are a good 400-600 yards away on some prime points. This spot will allow me access without even coming close to any of those buck bedding areas. I would also like to create a buck scrape to bring in a dominant buck. I have reason to believe that at least one very mature buck lives and breathes in a particular spot. I picked up his rub and scrape lines this past off-season, and I even think I found 1-2 of his beds. I have a spot where I can bring in my kayak up a lake, go all the way back into a 3-4 foot creek with it and be up a ravine and onto a flat shelf within minutes. And I truly believe that is where I can intercept that buck without tromping all over the place, scenting it up, and I will have a favorable wind situation. The third spot, well that spot is classified... No really, I believe the third spot I can create a major community scrape, and it is only 30 feet off of a creek. When I found this spot this year it was like a lightbulb went off in my head. I literally stood in this spot for over ten minutes just turning in circles and absorbing what I thought would happen in terms of deer movement. I think it is a prime spot for a community scrape, it will just be tricky to hunt due to the wind. I have to figure that piece out before I commit to making a mock scrape because I do not want to show my hand and scare something off if I am not prepared to kill it on the first hunt. I might want to back the scrape off 50-75 yards so a buck could access it from above without moving too far off from his sense of security. THANKS Duke. You guys do not realize how much you all have helped me out over the years. I have to read stuff over and over, then apply it over and over in a variety of situations before I "get it". Call me a slow learner, lol. Brett
