I try to keep things in a scientific perspective. No study has ever truly found giving wild deer population extra minerals as clearly beneficial. There may be many reasons why: it is a hard study to do, minerals in environment are more than adequate, etc. Common sense says they should help and observation points that way too. In any case, I will say I believe they do, but I won't claim they do. Thats where I stand on that. Salt is not bad. It is needed in the diet. People worry too much about it in deer supplements for the wrong reasons. I would be more worried about it affecting the vitamins in the mix (especially in that rain scenario). Now, while I do not want to make this a claim or have anyone test this now, the mineral attractant I am talking about would be great for pouring down as a liquid, the putting a mineral supplement on top.
I use Monster Raxx in a state hit HARD by drought. A deers diet is 80% natural forage and without rain those plants can't pull nutrients from the soil. I supplement my herd to compensate for that fact. Supplemental minerals DO promote herd health, disease resistance, and a lower mortality rate in fawns due to malnutrition. Around here our bucks only reached 90% of their antler potential because everything they gained naturally went to simply staying alive. But it goes without saying that a healthy deer grows larger antlers than, let's say, a malnourished deer. I killed a deer over 300 pounds this year, I think, in large part due to the 10 mineral sites I have set up on the main 160 acres I hunt. A high salt content gives them just that, salt. I don't put down mineral solely for attractiveness but I do expect it to help my herd.
chop, That may not be completely accurate either. Quickly growing, well-watered plans have deficiencies as well. Makes the mineral claim hard to prove. How do you measure the 90% on an animal that may not make the next season. It is a hard one. Hoyt, Sounds like you are trying stuff to evaluate potential rather than necessarily prove one against another. Would you be interested in trying this new product? All we ask is to help with shipping. The actual product is free. It is called Lucky 7.
You measure the 90% by having intimate knowledge of the herd and knowing the tendencies of your herds genetic disposition and year to year output. My family has been hunting the same ground 1908. Also I can justify the natural forage lacking its normal benefits by widespread crop failure and cattle grazed pastures not being able to bounce back from a pattern that has been in place, in most cases, for decades. There is for sure no way ANY supplement grows antlers itself. But a healthy deer that gets what it needs WILL grow bigger antlers. If whitetails get no benefit from having a mineral supplement then they would be the only animal on Earth that would not benefit from it.
I already asked bud, he said it's still in the early stages and they haven't released the ingredients yet.
chop, What are your methods, standards and controls? Your measurement criteria? Your measurement tools? There is no proof. And as I said earlier, deer are not stuck feeding on overgrazed land. While observations are great, they don't mean much in reality. That is why one cannot find studies that provide concrete proof. It is both a supplement and an attractant... it has a lot of minerals in it. I won't post any ingredients simply because of the bias you are showing now. I know you guys support a particular product and I am not interested in comparing anything to it nor battling preconceptions. I do not have any interest in bashing one product to promote another. Best to bow out w/o further misrepresentation.
I use buckscore, sheds, and my families over 100 years of managing this herd. I know every deer on my place and find close to 100 sheds every year.
I would not spend so much effort trying to chase off/ dismiss new products that may compete with yours. After all, a site like this lives off sponsors and advertising, thats how it makes revenue. Best to stop trying to tear down products you know nothing about just to sell more Monsterraxx. It also looks bad when prostaff do this and I personally believe Tom makes a quality product.
Feel free to point out anything negative that has been said about your product. So much for bowing out. I was actually interested in your "product" Never hurts to size up the competition. Maybe a new thread would have been a better idea.
Good luck with your testing, it is exciting working on something that you believe will benefit not only your deer herd but others as well. It is always a touchy subject when you are defending a product you believe in whether it is a bow, broadhead, clothing and even a mineral company against something someone else really believes in. I try to stay out of these...except when someone is talking about a mineral lick when it is over 90% salt and they mention Kool-Aid
I am honestly interested too, always very interested in anything "new" to the whitetail industry...if you do some testings and have some findings do share. I've said it before a lot I don't use Monsterraxx because I have to or I'm paid by them or anything. I use it because I've yet to find a better mineral supplement which provides more essential minerals and nutrients to the deer herd (does, bucks and fawns) then it. keep us posted on the progress of the new product.
90% salt isn't bad either. Trophy rocks are more than 98% salt. Salt works AND can deliver trace minerals. I wouldn't knock Kool Aid, I have heard guys that swear by grape. I tried it, can't say it made a difference or not. Lucky 7 comes from a great guy and his company. 50+ years hunting experience and a Vietnam Vet. Plus being one of the nicest guys I know. I consider myself lucky to be helping him with his online store (coming soon) and products. He actually has a couple pieces of land extremely close to Todd Graf's place southeast of Montello, WI. Small world.
It was mostly a joke about the Kool-Aid. So this is not a product that you came up with? From your posts I was under the impression that it was. I know trophy rocks are way over 90% salt and they have done an unbelievable marketing job getting people to pay for a salt block and saying trace minerals look that up you would find that it means very small amounts.
I have played with a lot myself over the last 30 plus years. We are putting our heads together on this and a couple other ideas. He has a friend in the feed industry as well. Trace minerals are small amounts, but many of these minerals are only needed in small amounts by an animal (or human). They generally only exist in the natural environment in small amounts. This is why much cropland is now devoid of trace minerals. We don't bother replacing them in the soil in this country (they do in others along with more traditional fertilizers). There are many things to do to improve our hunting. Attract (salt), supplement (minerals), feed (food plots). Some attractants/ supplements work well in one place, work for dung in another. Mix and match, trial and error. Deer cane beats antler king here, antler king wins hands down there. Always fun to play!
Hoyt, Sounds like you are trying stuff to evaluate potential rather than necessarily prove one against another. Would you be interested in trying this new product? All we ask is to help with shipping. The actual product is free. It is called Lucky 7. yes i could give it a shot..send me a message and we can go from there
I still don't see the need for that high of a salt content...just un-needed. It's been proven by other products that you can still attract the deer with a far less salt level. I'd rather skimp some on the salt (still WAY above the needed levels) and give the deer other minerals not so readily available (if at all). Now as for attracting deer I think this product from the vague description will most certainly do that. You should start a thread for updates on this new product.
