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Mechanical question

Discussion in 'Tech Talk' started by NewBowHunter, Nov 2, 2009.

  1. NewBowHunter

    NewBowHunter Newb

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    Hi to all, I have been reading all the posts about mechanicals and poor penetration with some and others saying they get pass throughs. I even checked out the Swhacker web page and heard Hank Parker talking about, the solution to today's new speed bows or something like that. You get to see him taking an bad quarting shot at plywood and blowing through it and sticking in the target bag. Nice comercial btw! It makes me wonder how much kenetic engergy is needed for performance like that, not that I plan on hunting plywood! But it would stand to reason that anytime your trying to plow through a deers boiler room with a large cutting diameter, you would need more KE. What kind of velocity/weight do you need for pass throughs with mechanicals such as the swhacker, grim reaper, and others like them.

    BTW, I would like to have seen what the blades looked like after going through the plywood. I do like the idea of the blades not deploying until after the long point is already in. I think that would help with pass throughs.

    I'm shooting a Bowtech Sniper and with the arrows I'm shooting; 100 grain Slick Tricks, I'd be lucky to be exceeding 270 fps, not exactly one of today's speed bows. I would worry that I don't have enough KE for mechanicals. No complaints with the Slick Tricks or anything, but need and want are two different things LOL

    What are your thoughts.
     
  2. BOB_T

    BOB_T Newb

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    Its pretty basic ..... Watch as many hunting videos as you can with those who shoot mechanicals & see how many pass thru .... Hardly any "THAT I HAVE SEEN". (For those who care to say they have seen every one pass thru)


    Plywood or not - Were not shooting at plywood & sometimes the angles are more than the 60degrees that they shoot the bows at ..... Shooting downward & at an angle is whats really going on out in the woods for the most part ......



    They shoot into ballistic gel but,,, I dont care - Ballisic gel is Not - Out in the woods / In the element & Under real world circumstances ...... Even with real deer shoulder blades in the gel - - Its not the same... A good example but,,, Not the same.



    There is newer mechanicals out that will do damage even of the blades dont open... They are improving for sure & will be exciting to see what starts coming out ....
     
  3. Live2Draw

    Live2Draw Die Hard Bowhunter

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    between me and my father, and a coupla friends, in the past 3 years, 30 some odd deer have fallen to Rage broadheads, all but one with passthroughs
    My dad shoots 60'lbs
     
  4. BOB_T

    BOB_T Newb

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    ^^^ 30 deer & 29 pass thru with rages???


    I know Rages , Some of my friends Assemble them at the Field logic building in town .... Also ,,, Those who I talk with (who hunt deer) while shooting leagues - Have told me different........ But,,,, The chances of you finding a deer that was hit badly is greatly increased with the rages - From what we have come up with......

    Idk about your deer ,,, Maybe They aint as thick skinned as they are up here.
     
  5. DropTine249

    DropTine249 Weekend Warrior

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    I'm going to agree with Live2Draw....

    I've shot somewhere in the area of 24 deer with Rage heads. Some quartering too, some quartering away, and, some broadside. almost all from treestands. If you've seen the photos I've posted on HNI(kills), this is substantiated.

    With various bows, but, all at or around 70"draw weight. from less than 10yards, out to 40+yards.

    Failed Pass Throughs(with Rage):

    1 big bodied deer I did not get a pass-through. However, keep in mind, I was 36' up in the tree and shooting maybe 20yards. I had to shoot far back on the deer and given the angle, the arrow lodged in the off-side shoulder(with notable damage to the off side shoulder. Arrow was "protruding through). Down within 30yards.

    I shot a buck square in the shoulder knuckle at 37yards. Given an extremely light weight arrow set-up, and, the shear size & age of this buck- my arrow failed to penetrate. Bad shot, miserable conditions, tough angle- not the broadheads fault. Would I have faired differently with a fixed broadhead ? Who knows. I would assume not.

    I'll take the "peace of mind" offered by the Rage and R.M. Snypers any day of the week. I've seen the front leg of a deer nearly cut off my a Rage head. Additionally, I've rather enjoyed watching nearly every deer drop within sight.

    Any broadhead you choose- a well placed shot will do the job. I will never condone taking a "less than ideal" shot, simply because you have a Rage on the tip of your arrow. They are not miracle broadheads...
     
  6. NewBowHunter

    NewBowHunter Newb

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    I wonder if people who aren't proficent in shooting their bows, buy the Rage thinking that wherever they hit it, the broadhead will make the kill? That would explain a lot of the lost deer/blame broadhead posts I've read. I wasn't just asking about the Rage however, it was more a question of KE required for relieable pass throughs with mechanicals in general. I was tempted to try them too, but just didn't want to spend the $$$. I'm pretty sure they would work fine in my "slow" Sniper. :p
     
  7. Live2Draw

    Live2Draw Die Hard Bowhunter

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    Our deer are traditionally Large bodied. I put one through a deers back shoulder knuckle quarteing away at 38 yards out of a 70lb HCA power force. Not exactly a new bow lol. Arrow was 15 yards past the deer.
    I do spend alot of time tuning my bows though. They all shoot anything you put on em, fixed, field points, Mechanicals. very similarly
    I do think it is all about your bow being as effecient as it can be

    And one more thing, I do sharpen my broadheads. All of them, with the exception of the Diamize sharp blades and presumably the slick tricks. havnt got those yet though.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2009
  8. konrad

    konrad Weekend Warrior

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    If you have questions about penetration, you need to google Dr. Ed Ashby and his Arrow Lethality Reports.

    Sign up as a member to Traditional Bowhunter Magazines's web-site (for free) and you will have access to everything.

    Eye-opening!

    3 blades are better than 4 and 2 blades are better than 3 and expandables are advertizing hype.
     
  9. Live2Draw

    Live2Draw Die Hard Bowhunter

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    i really wasnt too too impressed with that.
    i am pretty much sure any broadhead will get it done
    just some do it faster
     
  10. Deerslayer7

    Deerslayer7 Weekend Warrior

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    why is it that 4 are worse than 3....or vise versa....


    I stated earlier that my buddy was using those muzzy 4 blade broadhead

    He told me he like the way they flew, but wasnt getting enough penatration...now that could of been his shot placement, or what im not sure...

    I mean my bow is 2006 and only shoots about 250 fps

    I shot a does last year with the rage..and it went completely through her....so i agree with live2draw..putting a good ethical shot on a deer, and should have any problems....to bad thats not always the case.ha
     
  11. NewBowHunter

    NewBowHunter Newb

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    From what I've read the more blades you have, the more resistance there is. I believe that is why the guys that shoot traditional gear like the long bow mostly use the two blade designs, like a Ziwwicky; I think thats how it's spelled. But it makes sense, the more blades you have the more they have to cut through. Each blade has to plow it's own course. But I could be wrong. Also, isn't the cutting diameter different for the muzzy 3 blade vs 4 blade different. I think the 3 blade has a larger cut than the 4, not completely sure.

    I would like to see them make the swhacker into a 3 blade design. You would still get a 1" 3 blade cut on entry and a nice three blade cut going through and hopefully out!
     
  12. konrad

    konrad Weekend Warrior

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    Correct! Broadhead blades are really simple machines (inclined planes). An arrow has relativly little energy on impact, even from the newest and the fastest. The lower the angle, the less energy to do the work (penetrate). It takes less energy to go up a ramp rather than steep stairs. In the same vein, the more edges you are trying to push through tissue, the more energy is required to penetrate the same distance.

    As you stated, the object is to penetrate as many vital organs as possable. Hopefully you will wind up with a hole on both sides so vital fluids can leak that much more quickly.
     
  13. hunterace

    hunterace Weekend Warrior

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    i have shot alot of different broadheads. shot placement beats the hell out of any "special" gimmick or marketing. i decided to try the rage 3 blades this year and i love them. shot the buck in my avatar. he was quartering to me, not the best way to shoot them but it's what i had. i was 25 feet up a tree, he was 20 yards when i shot him. he ran 50 yards and dropped dead. the arrow didn't pass through, stopped in off side ribs. he broke the arrow somewhere alone the 50 yards he ran, half fell out approx 30 yards from shot. there was tons of blood the from where i hit him to where he died, and that was from one hole. best blood trail i ever had and i give the rage the credit. all in all i will continue to use the rage but there are many fixed or mechanical broadheads that will do the job if you shoot straight. good luck
     
  14. BOB_T

    BOB_T Newb

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    Im just saying - I shoot the older rage 2 blades & I like them too but,,, I know what I know & I know what others discuss because - I Live in the city where they are made & I have friends who assemble the BH's so,,,,,, We know what we know

    Its like me saying - My Kx125 is better than a Rm125 -- Just because Kawasaki has a better racer on it in last weeks MX............
     
  15. carpsniper

    carpsniper Weekend Warrior

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    Make sure your bow is tuned the very best you can get it. Then follow 'ace's sage advice and it will nearly not matter what head you are using. "nearly" there have been a few junk heads out there. But they disapear pretty quickly.
     

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