Emotional wreck???? BAHAHAHA come on now kid, really? Someone gives an honest review and finally doesn't side with Mathews and you get a little butt hurt? Is the Teflon string slide not enough to make you worry about the bow BLOWING up in your face? Everything about the bow screams they are going backwards in technology, how can a company whose claim to fame name "SOLOCAM" come out with a bow that's a Nocam? Or going to split limbs like Hoyt after all these years (I realize they split them 4-5 years ago)? All these "top" end bows are so close in production that companies are scrambling to make changes, am I wrong? You'd think a company that makes more money than ALL the other bow companies designed would have there crap together before releasing a bow with a huge liability. Only time will tell how many strings hit or blow up by hitting the cams. As for the two bows I shot.... NoCam - 72lbs (maxed), 30" DL, and 350 grain unfletched arrow - It was definitely smoother drawing, Chrono was 288fps (no pics, didn't think I need to prove to a kid speed isn't everything), I thought it was equally quiet indoors until I stepped outside and then I realized the Elite was much quieter. The valley in the Mathews is standard in the fact that if you moved just a little bit, the bow will want to creep forward on you. Synergy - 73lbs (maxed), 30" DL, same 350 grain unfletched arrow - Not as smooth as the Mathews but very nice since redesigning the cam from the Energy. Chrono was 302fps (speed wasn't the selling point by any means, I could care less about speed). Extremely quiet outside compared to NoCam. The valley is like no other bow on the market, hands down! It can be held back, have a 5 min convo with your buddy, turn and shoot without fatigue! I don't know if it gets any better for a hunting setup? No Cam 6 5/8" Brace height - I'd prefer 7"+ 32" ATA - That's fine but a little small for me (I'm 6'2") I like a little bit bigger bow bc they tend to be more forgiving. Synergy 7 3/8" Brace Height - Very nice IMO 33.5" ATA - Ideal but still a little short IMO @ 73.54lbs with a 30" DL I was holding 6.62lbs in my valley, didn't take pics of the Mathews bc it wasn't even comparable and I just felt like the bow was made flawed, sold flawed, and had gone backwards in technology. SOOO..... no panties in a wad here, these are my personal takes from shooting them for 3 days. Sorry you seem to get offended so easy by someone with a different opinion than you and you need pics and stats to make things clear. Sure everyone will like different bows, that's why they make so damn many. Deferent folks with different strokes kid..... carry on!
My point exactly...an emotional wreck. What are we in high school...calling someone a kid? That's very interesting that you mention getting butt hurt...with that reaction. Well done sir, well done. Among the nonsense, I actually agree with your specific review on both bows. Tho speed doesn't matter to me, nor brace height. So the only thing that stood out was... - No Cam definitely wants to creep forward, even at 85% let-off. I was really surprised by this. - Synergy (elites for that matter) have an excellent valley, stands out beyond all other bows, in my opinion. No one needs pictures, just specifics in a review. When you use caps on specific words and exclamation marks to further the emphasis on it, it comes off a little emotional. Top that off with the response such as that, it just clarifies my point.
Rutin, your exchange with COwbOyChris was interesting. I see two passionate archers expressing their honest opinions in an open forum, and being very entertaining at the same time. Yes the Mathews NO Cam HTR is not as fast as some other bows on the market today. Yes there is a slight, but perceptible, creep in the NO Cam when held at full draw. Yes the Mathews NO Cam is not everybody's cup of tea. And yes I do take the design engineers word at Mathews when they say that the NO Cam is a radical departure in compound bow design from the path that they have previously pursued. When Ford Motor Co. brought out the first Mustang it was considered to be a very cool car, but in essence didn't do anything different from any other car. The hallmark of the American marketplace is innovation. rutin, you pointed out that Mathews is a large fish in the pond of compound bow manufacturing, as was Ford when they brought out the Mustang. Both Ford and Mathews have production and new roll-out schedules, the annual Detroit Car and Mathews own Archery shows as examples. The "Market" demands to see new products annually. You know the old saying "don't by a new car the first year it comes out"? I suggest sir that you hold your judgement on the NO Cam until you see if it's in Mathews catalogue next year. If it isn't then you can chalk up the HTR as an unmitigated failure, yet another "Edsel" to be laughed and snickered at.
Why hold judgment on a product that has a major flaw? I've shot Mathews for the last 15 years, to say I was loyal to their product is pretty true. It was a tough decision, it'd be like me walking away from Chevy trucks (don't see it happening). Honestly it seems like a simple fix if they would just recall the cams and replace them with a beefier cam that would allow the needed space between the cam and string. Literally a 1/4" and I wouldn't have any "major" concerns with that bow. The Elites sold me as a hunter though with the valley, its just flat out ridiculous and hunter friendly.
I think you summed it up in the previous post. "Worried about it blowing up in your face". If these bows start blowing up, and it's a direct result from the teflon piece hitting the cam, then it will be a major flaw. But if it doesn't, how can it be a flaw? This is something I will be keeping a close eye on to see how it plays out on my No Cam.
FWIW I've been shooting my HTR since November and there is zero visible signs of wear on the teflon sleeves that protect the cables. Additionally, during a Q&A with Matt McPherson he was asked what the purpose of those sleeves was exactly. His response was basically that when you see a bow (any bow) shot in super slow motion the strings and cables move far more than what you can see with the naked eye. So yes, there is a chance for some contact between the cable and the cam when the bow is shot. By the time that would happen the arrow is long gone off the string so it has zero bearing on accuracy. However in the event there is some incidental contact they wanted to be able to protect the cable from premature wear. Chances are those teflon sleeves will never actually be needed but it was better safe than sorry. In some regards it's a darned if you do, darned if you don't situation. Put them on just in case and you have guys screaming about this "major" flaw in the system. Don't put them on and one person on the Internet shows a case of premature cable wear and more cries of a "major" problem come out. I'd be willing to bet there's thousands of those bows in people's hands by this point and unless I'm missing something I've yet to see anyone complaining about major wear issues or cable contact.
Justin and Chris - Not saying they will "all" blow up or even "1" will. It just struck me in a wrong note that a major company would cover up an issue the cheapest route possible rather than fix it correctly (Like others have said, if it works and nothing fails no big deal). To me its still a big deal, of the 50 or so NoCams I've seen in stores or that my buddies already own, I would say 75% of them show slight marks on the Teflon slide. I would think that's a true indicator of it hitting the cam. How long before it starts beating the cam up? I honestly don't know but wasn't willing to take that risk. Of course the people at Mathews are going to spew whatever they can to make anything sound like its okay until something happens, that's damn near "every" major business in the USA now..... Deny until you cant deny anymore. I truly hope the bow stays safe and doesn't start failing within a few years of wear and tear. It was just my simple observation and to "me" was a major flaw, maybe not such a flaw to others.
rutin, your last post had me running to check and see if there was any wear on the cams or the plastic sleeve of my HTR. Happy to report that I couldn't see any wear whatsoever, and I've conservatively shot a couple thousand arrows with it since December. Whew!
Hey guys I could care less who shoots what but these numbers don't make sense. No questioning anybody's integrity here but from my own test using un-certified equipment yielded a speed of 280+ for a 350 roughly grain fletched arrow at 68# and 27" DL. So it does not make sense that a 350 grain unfletched arrow would only be 8 fps faster with 3 inches of DL and 5 more # of DW. I have been shooting Elite since 2008 with my first Elite bow being the original Elite Synergy with the K8 cam. To me Elite has the best grip in the business and now not many will contest with its almost 90% let off numbers as showed in the example posted above that is has the most comfortable valley. While the numbers don't make since to me it is possible they are correct but either way at the end of the day if you shoot either bow is anyone really wrong? Oh and another thing remember the McPherson Hornet of 2001? It was a split limb bow so McPherson has been toying with split limb bows for much longer than 5 years just under a different brand name. McPherson was merged with Ben Pearson in 2002 I think.
Everybody has their own taste for what bows they like. That is perfectly fine in my book. But, You cant call something an issue unless it really is an issue. Nothing has happened to call it an issue or a flaw. Just like Justin said, their are thousands of these bows out their already and more being sold. If it "Becomes" and issue then i'm sure Mathews will take care of its customers. Since its not an issue or a flaw right now then i'm going to continue to shoot my bow and having fun.
I'm thinking the sleeve is a "crutch" to make people feel better that the cable won't be in direct contact with the cam (or whatever you want to call it). If the sleeve is 1/16" away from the cam, and the sleeve is 1/16" thick, then the cable is 1/8" away from the cam. Just looking at my Hoyts, the up cable is pretty darn close to the bottom cam (.12" on my Carbon Spyder 30). Putting a teflon sleeve on the cable at this point would hardly make these bows have a flawed design. I say "shoot baby shoot" and have a darn good time while you're doing it!!
Mathews HTR vs Elite Synergy I personally didn't like the HTR draw cycle... Felt it stacks at the wierdest point in the cycle...I much preferred the Chill X and R draws to this, and IMO they are more comparable to the Synergy. I like the Mathews focus grip much better than the Elite I love the new Lost OT camo on the HTR perfect for treestands and late season. HTR holds very stable at full draw and is quiet...I didn't notice the creep that others mentioned, but Elite has a much larger valley/locked in feeling. They are both slow compared to my bow, but fast enough to kill deer with. I'd personally rather have a Chill R than either of the other bows. One thing for sure HTR will be the most loved and hated bow this year which means if you shoot it and love it you'll find a lot of used HTRs for sale.
Great post. The only difference in our opinions is I like the DC on the HTR. I shot the ChillR last year and still have a Monster7 as a back up bow. I will say, I've never shot a better bow at long range than the HTR. As far as some of the claims about the HTR being slow, 28.5", 70#, 400gr arrow=287. 455gr arrow was 271. To the guy who got 288 from a 30", 70, and 350gr arrow, I would make sure the bow is in spec, or shoot through a different chrono. SCFox
I didn't say slow...just slower than mine. Both are plenty fast to poke through the ribs of a whitetail 20-30 yards. My Xcentric is much faster though at 67# 28.5" DL slings a 397 gr arrow at 318 fps.
There are lots of great bows out there today and just like many have said you have to go shoot them. I have always liked Matthews and have preference for them as they are made just down the road from me and have never steered me wrong. For me my biggest complaint is what many love in the longer axel-to-axel. I like a compact bow for packing in a lot of gear and hunting in some tight spots. Draw cycle is smooth as always, its extremely quiet and every place I go tells me it is the easiest bow to tune ever. I am extremely please so far!
