The land I hunt on Is about 120 acres In size (55 acres woods and 65 acres ag land). My dad owns most of It (the woods) and my brother owns the ag land. Since the mid 90's or so I started passing on the younger smaller bucks like dad always did when he lived around here (he now lives In northern Mn). My 1st year doing this I shot a 120 Inch or so 3.5 year old. From that year on I said I wouldn't shoot another 3.5 unless he was at least 130 Inches. Since then I've passed many 3.5's but as the years have gotten longer the less 3.5's I'm seeing. Our neighboring land owners don't do any managing at all but yet are always the 1st to complain that there's no big bucks around. They've asked me about It and I've tried explaining to the neighbors shooting doe's Is part of managing a quality herd too but there take Is If you don't shoot a buck (regardless of age) your not a deer hunter. I always laugh to myself when I think of my neighbors and their ways and words. I'm not bashing hunters for shooting smaller, younger bucks at all. As long as your happy and not complaining who am I to say anything. I'll continue to pass on the bucks I've been passing on every year but how many of you out there think It's pointless to manage a small tract of land that Is surrounded by neighbors who don't practice anything? How much land do you think one needs (realistically) to start seeing the rewards?
You are on to something big here. You will need help from your state and also if you can form a network with your neighbors it will pay off.
I do not do any managing. I don't do food plots or anything like that and my guests can shoot any deer they like. Little buck, big buck, doe, fawn etc what ever makes them happy is fine with me. I could not care less what the neighbors or others I share the land with kill either. I just work with what I am dealt on each property. I see no point in trying to manipulate "my" deer herd, that just doesn't interest me.
Managing your land is a lot of work and can make some bad blood between people that hunt with you.Unless they are on the same page. I took a hard look at my management practices over the last year and I'm going to simplify it as much as possible. I manage 250 acres and I have seen a differance in the last 5 years. Anything you do is going to help.
The club just up the road from us shoot around 25 bucks every year. They are all around 100" or so. They do manage to get 1 or 2 a year in 130 or so. There is really not much you can do. Just hope some of them slip through the cracks. If they would just cut what they shoot in half it would make a big difference. There is not anything wrong with what they do. I'm just thinking what there could be in a few years.
Tolerance like this of other hunter's methods is something most of us could exercise more often. Great attitude!
X2...I do not own land, so the idea of investing thousands with the oppertunity to loose it at a moments notice does not entice me in the least. My friends do own quite a bit of land in S Alabama, and I have alot of fun "managing" the land, food plots, shoot does etc...and we have witnessed some un-real results, but on the land around here I just hope to get that needle in the haystack inside 35 yards. Edit...to attempt to answer the question, I think if you can get a buck to call your area home, live there a couple years avoiding other arrows and bullets and then walk by you at 25 yards when he is grown...not much land at all.
I respect both sides of the fence on management. Basically, it's your land and if you want to manage it then go for it. Shultzy, you got to do something to keep the bucks on your land. Your gonna have to provide food sources and such. I would say the most important thing for you to do is grow a sanctuary for your bucks to go to when the pressure is on.
We have 175 acres at our cabin. It's bordered on three sides by state land. We don't have any set rules, but the guys that hunt any amount of time up there (at least 10 or more archery hunts and 3 gun hunts) don't shoot just any buck. That's about as much management as we can get into. I have already let deer go by me only to hear the war kick off when they cross the line. It's frustrating, but it's life.
WTF Is this? I asked how much land does a person think they need In size to see results? I think you know exactly what I was asking. The area I hunt In Is nothing special In the least when It comes to buck numbers Scott so managing and whatever else goes on can go a long ways to help. That's why I asked the question I did.
To answer your question, Shultzy, you have enough land to manage. Like I stated earlier you have to do things to keep them there.
I manage our 100 acre farm to the best of my ability. We've just finished planting another 2500 trees that brings our total to around 15,000 trees over 3 years. We've planted 40 acres of NWSG as well. We are currently in a CP22 and WHIP program that helps with cost sharing. We do have a couple of food plots that equal about 2 acres and have 3 mineral sites on our land. I have been in a little verbal skirmish with my older brother about his hunting practices by shooting 2.5 year old deer. He's a rifle hunter and I'm a bowhunter. I try not to let it bother me when he shows up with a buck I've passed up 5 times earlier in the season. It helps to be on the same page with your family but I've never visited a neighbor and asked their hunting practices. I think it just gets to be too much to worry about it.
What is with the "WTF" reaction? I was commenting on things you discussed in your post about neighbors etc. Am I not allowed to comment on something you bring up if it does not directly answer your question?
I manage about 1000 contiguous acres. My plan is simply to try to shoot mature bucks and take the number of does I feel necessary. I have one other buddy that helps me out with food plots etc. and we share the same goals. Our kids are allowed to shoot any deer they want. The friends that hunt with us are allowed to shoot whatever makes them happy but all are very respectful of what we are trying to do and seem to pass younger deer. We allow all to shoot does. It is enough ground to allow some bucks to mature, but many are killed by neighbors or just move off due to competition from other mature bucks. At one point, we had so many mature bucks that we lost three different pairs in one year because they locked antlers fighting. The largest scoring buck grossed 183". Still trying to recover from that one. To me, the single most important factor is having a sanctuary. You simply MUST have a place with good cover, close to food and water, that mature deer know is a safe haven. I have about a 30-40 acre area that is totally off limits except for shed hunting and Spring turkey season. During our shotgun season I try to stay out of all of the timber so I am not bumping deer out. I guess the best way you can look at your situation is; If you let the younger deer walk, he at least has a chance to mature. Even on a smaller piece, you might be surprised what you can do by creating a sanctuary. On a small piece, you dont even want your scent to drift towards the sanctuary. A buddy of mine has a 42 acre piece of timber that he stays out of most of the year, and he has killed some giants there. He only steps foot in it a few days a year and only under ideal conditions. His neighbors all hunt on a very regular basis but the deer have become accustomed to feeling safe in his woods. It takes discipline, but it flat out works. Give it a try.
If your goal is higher percentage at big bucks, the best thing you can do is gain access to more areas, not try to manage one 65 acre piece of timber. You are just severely limited on acreage that small. (I know first hand as all of my private land pieces are small acreage) They dont have to be prime areas to want to gain access on them either. Properties go up and down every year with the quality of bucks they hold, from a host of influences that we have no control over (hunters, cars, winter kill etc).... Your best bet is to have a few pieces to choose from and scout them hard each summer finding what tracts you have access to are holding deer of the caliber you seek. Each new year the best thing you can do is forget about all the deer you found the previous summer and fall and start fresh on each property not expecting to see any of those bucks from last year again. This way when you cannot find some of the bucks from last year you aren't let down. In my experiences more times than not you will not locate the same "target" buck(s) the next year on these small acreage properties. Just my opinion.... BTW this was another post that didn't answer your direct question. Hope that's OK.
The only way I could see "managing" a small parcel of land (under 100 acres) is to have it be the thickest nastiest stuff in the area and then never hunt it yourself. At that point you'd just hope a few bucks could hole up in there. Otherwise I think it would take intensive land management more than deer management to truly keep deer on anything less than 500 acres.
Even if "managing" your land on that small of a parcel of land doesn't yield a much higher chance of seeing older bucks, it doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do. At least you gave that buck a chance to get older. Maybe you will see that buck again and likely you won't. But if you shoot that young buck you now know that buck won't have any chance of getting older.
Thanks for the responses everyone. I'm very good to my word. I said In the start of this thread I will continue doing the same thing In passing the 3.5's and younger bucks. That's a cake walk for me, I'm stubborn and have always been committed when I set goals and standards. Scott you are right. I do not have enough other places to go to, that's a no doubter there. Your 2nd reply was great but your 1st one rubbed me the wrong way. Scott, you do manage the land you hunt some. You don't shoot younger bucks. 2 Lunger- No doubt what you said Is spot on. There Is 2 spots on this land I never touch during the season. Usually I'll hunt trails that lead to these 2 different sanctuaries a few times through out the year permitting a good wind. The big boy I was chasing around last year was In both of these at different times of the year. I think this Is one thing allot of deer hunters do wrong. They go Into these sanctuaries, right In the middle of them.
I think everytime you pass OR shoot a legal deer, you are doing just that...manipulating the deer herd. If you don't want to manipulate it, don't hunt.
To me it's one of those you play the hand you're dealt deals. We own a 35 acre parcel, and about 300 yds separate this from our other 30 acre parcel...hardly enough to control a herd, or big bucks, as we also use these properties year round for family enjoyment (bucks DO NOT bed on our property). But I let the little ones walk, at the same time care less if other family/friends are happy to take one. It really comes down to surrounding properties. In one aspect we are lucky deer are Big Bu$$iness and we're surrounded by nationally known outfitters - they let the bucks walk as well. But their major downside is that they rarely shoot does...and it's starting to impact the herd. It gives us plenty of opportunity to fill the freezer and let others do the same on our property...but I feel the herd is overpopulated and this impacts nutrition and antlers (I never saw a spike bucks up until a few years ago - last year I saw 5 different ones on our place). So back to the original question - The more land the better, but even with small acreage you should have a harvest plan, and if you have a relationship with neighbors even better...above all - try to keep the herd healthy. It sure seems to me when we could hunt 100's of acres around us, and the farmers/families shot every deer they could during gun season (many small bucks)...that I saw more TOP END bucks then with a smaller herd, then I do today with a larger herd and many more 2.5-3.5 yr olds...
