man this kid got lucky

I figured your oh so preacher self might show up. I thought it was time for you to leave the site again??

KaPowww!!

 

Typical punk drivel... I thought you left this thread? Lol...

 

Did you not see the part where I told atlasgirl I was done with his and I's conversation but would continue with others?

 

Gentlemen, can't we all just get along? I completely missed the exchange in this thread yesterday or I would have addressed it sooner. Let's keep the discussion civil and watch the name calling and attitude. We can discuss shot placement without it.

 

Thank you! Backcountry will take the shot Atlas wont. End of story. The name calling is annoying and won't change anyone's opinion.

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I would also like to point out that the bull never spots the hunter and he never hears the hunter either. @1:08 of the video, the bull may sense something is up and he stops,(then again, he may have just felt like stopping) he starts to turn his ears forward and backward (If he would've heard the hunter, he wouldn't have moved his ears backward) to try and locate. He directed his ears backward trying to get a sense of "what was up" . But the hunter is in front of him, so the bull has no idea where he's at.

Also, the bull never moved until the arrow hit it's mark. We learn exactly where the hunter is standing by looking at the bulls eyes. Once the arrow hits it's mark, the bull immediately locates the hunter and doesn't take his eyes off of him until he crashes to the ground.

 

I am taking the shot...at close range it's an easy choice.

 

Pure conjecture..........the bull stops in his tracks with audible sounds from the hunter, there is also at least one other person there running the camera. They said themselves that they were taken by surprise so concealment was most likely zero, in fact it looks like the kid is simply standing in the wide open. No different then a deer nailing you down in your stand and staring a hole through you.......he doesn't know exactly what he sees but he knows it's not right and the first verification he gets by movement, sound, or smell and he's gone.


Let's be honest while we're at it........this is not a frontal shot, it's more quartering to then head on. That kid was probably shooting at a 4 inch circle for success with anything but meaning a lost/wounded animal. We can all shoot better then 4" groups at 20 and under........on a target, live game tosses in about a dozen other uncontrollable variables.


It's just not worth the risk considering the consequences and the fact that you have him toasted anyways........he's already inside 20 yards, just wait for him to turn, he's not going to start backing up all the sudden

 

Same goes for a whitetail??........if not why??

 

Whitetail = smaller and quicker?

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I would not. Obviously the target is way smaller than an elk but I can't imagine a situation where I would ever be presented with a frontal shot on a deer. I have rattled in a few deer in while on the ground but they usually pick me off before offering a shot or offer something broadside. If it was something ridiculous like 5 yards and under I likely would. I could have taken frontal shots out of a tree but obviously the angle is too steep to do any good and is not an option.

 

We are not discussing whitetail. So I don't see how it's germane to the conversation.

 

These two sentences do not belong in the same quote. I don't know how many times you've been busted. From my experiences as soon as an animal figures out what you are they are gone. There is no "I think I see a hunter, let me slowly turn broadside for him".

 

Really the target on a whitetail isn't smaller then we are all capable of hitting 99% of the time at that range.......it's a very makable shot, in fact there are hunters on this very site that advocate it.

Quickness I will pass off as a wash because even the slightest flinch on the animals part equals disaster so both are capable of that.

 

If it's a poor shot on a whitetail........it's a poor shot on an elk. The targets are both well within our skills to pull off so anatomy of size of should not be a factor as neither is beyond our capabilities.

 

Do a poll on how many have taken a frontal on whitetail and had a good outcome verses those that have not. The answer may surprise you.

I would not be scared of a frontal on an elk in the slightest, even though I have never hunted them.

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I've been busted plenty of times in 27 years of chasing deer...........the key difference is not when the animal notices you but when it CONFIRMS you don't belong. You've never been in a stare down that you "won"?? If you don't move or make a sound and your properly hidden sometimes they just continue about their business. I've held my bow so long I thought my arms were going to snap waiting for a deer to gather the nerve to take a couple more steps.......we all have.

Does it always work??.......nope. Sometimes they get the better of you and bolt. That's hunting........if you can't deal with that and you will just fling any shot you get a chance at then you shouldn't be in the woods. When people say "It's the only shot I had!".........I always correct them and say "Then, you didn't have a shot"

As it has already been stated........the Texas heart shot is VERY lethal and in reality offers less resistance and a better chance for success then a frontal shot but no respectable source would EVER advocate doing it.

 

Useless..........we rarely hear about when someone makes a poor shot. Miraculously every hunter online seems to never miss. No one would post the truth and publicly shame themselves.

 

Against my better judgement, I'll debate this with you (but only for a moment).

My point isn't conjecture at all. You can see for yourself on the video. He's turning his ears. I've never personally owned an elk, but I have owned a horse. He's moving them the same way a horse would, think of them like antenna. He's turning his antenna to locate the disturbance. But in this case, he's turning them frontward and backward, which naturally tells me that he hasn't located the hunter. If he had located the hunter, his ears would be forward. That bull is in survival mode 100% of the time, he's not going to risk turning his ears backward if he knows there's a threat to the front of him. That's why I say he simply doesn't know the hunter is there.

To your next point about a deer staring a hole through me. Deer don't stare holes through you. Deer (and elk) don't see like you and I do. Their eyes have more rods than cones, our eyes are the opposite. What does that mean in lay terms? A deer can't make out definition,(their world is blurry) hence the feeling of a deer staring a hole through you. In reality, he's trying to locate you. He simply can't see you if you don't move. We've all been in that situation. If you move a finger, the deer is gone. Because they have more rods in their eyes, they can pinpoint on any movement, it can be a flinch and they can notice it. So, when they're staring at you, they're waiting for movement.

Next, deer and elk see worse straight forward. Their eyes are on the side of their heads. So when you're directly in front of them, they're at the disadvantage, they will often try to turn their heads to focus one eye on you. However, any movement and they're gone.

That's not a quartering shot, and the room for error would be more like a solid foot.

You wouldn't necessarily have "toasted him" anyway (which I think is a disrespectful term for harvesting an animal). I've watched enough elk videos to know that if that elk got his wind or realized he was there, he'd never get the shot off.

It was a perfect shot, and I'd take the same one everyday and twice on Sunday.

However, if you can show me proof that you have a 4" area to take that shot on a full grown bull elk, I will most certainly reconsider my position. I've said 12" which is backed up by Elk101, Corey Jacobsen (he's kind of a big deal), and BackCountry also made mention of it earlier.

To answer your question about taking the shot on a Whitetail, Whitetail aren't elk. The average Bull Elk is 2.5 times larger than a mature buck whitetail. They're just different animals requiring different hunting tactics.

 

Honestly you guys.........what do you think the success rate is for this shot taken by bow hunters of all kinds every year??