Well guys, Ive done a lot of thinking about my stand placements and overall my approach to hunting the public lands I hunt. I want to stop sitting the same stands all the times just because I've gotten lucky and killed from them in the past, or found a trail that's worn down. I think the latter has been one of the areas i struggle with most as a hunter. I find a trail that looks good so i put a camera up in the summer or after the season and end up with a stand there next year and come to find the deer don't use it the way i thought they would. This year i want to be more mobile and try to find the deer, not hope they come to my pre set locations. With that being said i have hung a ton of stands already that i will use primarily for morning hunts, or times when I'm pressed to get in the stand. My question to all of you is, what advice would you give me on being mobile (not gear wise) What do you look for on the maps to narrow down where to scout? Do you use maps to narrow it down or just start walking and find sign? How often do you do in season scouting? What fresh sign do you guys look for especially in hardwoods. Any input will be greatly appreciated, I had a great start to the season this weekend seeing a bunch of deer on private land where i am very limited in stand placement, but thinking ahead most of my hunting will be on public land and i want to better myself! Thanks for the help guys!
I don't hunt public land, but it seems to me from what I hear and see from people, the best way is either to hunt right up next to the hard surface roads and parking areas or go very deep in where nobody wants to go.. two extremes.
I hunt private but I can tell you I am always moving stands and have my mobile set ups ready to go. While general trends stay the same specific patterns vary year to year based on a number of factors. Being ready to move and having the ability to hang a fresh set and hunt it have made the difference for me. As I have said in other threads first sits in fresh sets have resulted in dead deer for me. Hunting is an active process, have the confidence to respond to new information.
I think the biggest sin of most hunters is oversitting stands. My number one goal this year is to move. I am going to be in their kitchens, knocking on their bedroom doors, and on their asses all year. This year I will not sit and wait like some bottom feeder. I will HUNT.
I don't have the best track record for kills, but I'd like to think that has to do with the very low deer population where I hunt. I'll do my best to answer some questions for you. Most of the advice I can offer is from members on this forum (VS, Holt, Rick James, WL704, grizzly, amongst others), learned from the hunting beast forum, Dan infalt videos, and my personal experiences. My experience with public land from the get-go was always rough and a slow go. I spent many many seasons (up until last year) hunting over deer runs, rub lines, but had no idea as to how, when, and why deer used them. The hardwoods I hunt are not near any type of food growing farm fields, besides hay. The areas that are nostalgic to me are areas that my dad had hunted but contain very little drastic terrain changes, other than a few open swamps and mazes of mountain laurel. There is plenty of deer in these spots, however, there is no rhyme or reason to what run they use, what time they use it, and so on. It is very very unpredictable and has had me scratching my head for the past 4 seasons. There is plenty of sign everywhere throughout this section of woods, so it is easy to see why I've been hung up on it for all of these years. I finally realized my trend of limited success would continue unless I let it go. Watching Dan Infalt's videos and advice from members on here made me realize I need to forget about these deer in this certain area and focus on land features/terrain that promote and funnel deer movement. Letting go of all of this sign and nostalgia was very hard for me. I started to last year and had the most sightings I've ever had (9 deer), and this year will be 100% terrain-based. My question to all of you is, what advice would you give me on being mobile (not gear wise)? Adapt....Adapt.....Adapt. Do not get hung up on one spot. be mobile as possible. Spend more time scouting midday looking for fresh sign near food sources, and set up on it for the afternoon hunt. Unless you had sightings, a promising encounter, didn't get busted or alert the deer, start in a new spot every time. Its public land, use it all to your advantage. What do you look for on the maps to narrow down where to scout? Terrain features that promote movement. This first picture is the topo of where I've spent almost all of my hunting time in the past. Notice, there is nothing drastic in the terrain. Contours are at 10' intervals. The only thing that prohibits movement is mountain laurel patches which are EVERYWHERE! I was truly a needle in a haystack, it is impossible to narrow down which path they will take. To the left of the black line is the area I used to hunt. The red line is a buck run that has been used since the beginning of time and is where my dad shot his biggest buck from, and where I a$$ shot my buck from. This next map is where I will be spending some time this season. Notice the drastic changes in terrain. Deer will travel the path of least resistance. I scouted this area last summer, and all the theories I've mentioned were proven true. The yellow lines were observed runs. Over 100' of elevation change between swamps, a natural saddle where deer trails intersect, and an active scrape exists (Even in the summer), Swamp for bedding, trails going downhill to a less steep hill with white oaks for food. Buck runs on the military crests of the hills where a cruising buck can catch the rising thermals in the morning, and be protected with scent coming from a west wind. Do you use maps to narrow it down or just start walking and find sign? I use topo maps and aerials, followed by boots on the ground to confirm or dismiss what the maps show. I use Caltopo.com (Thanks Brett!) to look for land features (topo) that promote or would funnel deer movement (aka path of least resistance, yet safe) between bedding and food sources. The topo map is the first step, to find land features/terrain, the aerial is the second step, it can show thickets, mtn laurel patches (Potential bedding) and natural vegetation edges. Third step is boots on the ground to confirm or dismiss the area. A few times I've found an area on a topo map that looks amazing with saddles and ridges leading out of swamps only to see it covered in impenetrable mountain laurel, and impossible to hunt. A great way to start learning how to do this is by finding a primary food source in the hardwoods near a terrain feature that promotes movement. Acorns from white oaks. I used to suck at telling the difference between red oak and white oak. Now, it is like second nature. My eyes scan and zero in on white oaks. If you can find a terrain feature, (saddle or shelf) and find a food source near it, it increases your odds. You are now hunting with a purpose. How often do you do in-season scouting? Every single time I hunt. I scout first to find what I want to see, then I set up over it. What fresh sign do you guys look for especially in hardwoods? Starting last year, I ignored all rubs and scrapes unless I was in an area that promoted movement or a very very thick patch of woods. It is hard to do because you see a rub on a 4" tree and it gets your blood going. BUT, where I hunt, this sign is all done at night, and very very rarely occurs during shooting light. Finding a rub line is good for morale, but it is a double edge sword, it could be 100 plus yards away from a buck bed, and most likely you will never see him during daylight. I look for a white oak grove (Near terrain that promotes movement) with a little bit of fresh poo. NOT an insane amount of sign, because that means they've hit it hard, and most likely won't be back for a while. I hope this helps a bit. It's a tough journey and way to easy to get lazy. You need to force yourself to do it every time. scouting with 30 pounds of gear on your back for hours and setting up a new set every time you hunt is tiring, but it is what needs to be done for what you want to accomplish.
Well I agree, I pay a decent amount every year to hunt in my club and we have 7k acres and unless Im really keyed in on a buck or the movement is slow, I rarely hunt the same stand twice in one season. Keep moving, scouting is the most crucial part for me. Fresh droppings and acorns or food all season is what has worked for me.
"Starting last year, I ignored all rubs and scrapes unless I was in an area that promoted movement or a very very thick patch of woods. It is hard to do because you see a rub on a 4" tree and it gets your blood going. BUT, where I hunt, this sign is all done at night, and very very rarely occurs during shooting light. Finding a rub line is good for morale, but it is a double edge sword, it could be 100 plus yards away from a buck bed, and most likely you will never see him during daylight. I look for a white oak grove (Near terrain that promotes movement) with a little bit of fresh poo. NOT an insane amount of sign, because that means they've hit it hard, and most likely won't be back for a while. I hope this helps a bit. It's a tough journey and way to easy to get lazy. You need to force yourself to do it every time. scouting with 30 pounds of gear on your back for hours and setting up a new set every time you hunt is tiring, but it is what needs to be done for what you want to accomplish." One the best tid bits I have ever read on this site. Rubs and scrapes are great if they are in travel routes and/or food source such as oaks. Now where I hunt there are not a lot of oaks, in fact 3k acres or half of what I can hunt has about 10 oak trees. The deer eat a ton of browse and live in very thick cutovers and bed 360 degrees around you if they choose to. Makes it difficult. But the bucks and does that I have killed the last 10 years will absolutely walk edges and creeks where they left tall timber when they cut the trees for timber...it's a 50/50 crap shoot most times.
Here is what I can add to the above. No two properties are the same and should be treated different. Each are unique and so are the deer on these properties. Being able to recognize this and hunt according is a huge help. Rub and scrapes are sign and can be a huge help, but you need not get sucked into the lure of them. Yes you can sit over a scrape and kill a buck, but it's during a very specific time of the year. A big fresh rub about chest high during early October will tell you one thing. There is a mature buck most likely within 100 yards of you. You got to stop and visualize where he might be coming from and where he's going. Your in his bubble. He's in his bubble and most likely won't leave it til dark. These bubbles can be 50 yard circle or could be a couple hundred yards big. This is were knowledge of the terrain your hunting will be very helpful help pin point his bed. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
First off you need desire. Seems like you have that down. The desire to outwork other people. They are inside and you are in the woods walking and gaining knowledge, year after year. Have a system in your scouting. Arrange about 80% of your scouting areas to align with the predominant wind in your area come October into Nov. That would be a N/NW for me. 20% of the other stand sites would be in those same areas, yet they would take into account every other wind. Gives you a peace of mind that if the wind goes to hell you have a back up if things are hot in that area or if you have to get down and move during the hunt. Back to the system. About 10 plus years ago I got big into map scouting and hunting the top 3rd of hills. I would walk those hills at that elevation and not deviate. I would walk until I picked up sign and then generally mark the area. When I returned to hunt I scrambled to find a good tree based on picking just a general area. I'll touch more on that later. I started killing more deer immediately. I could pick a spot on a map and set up where my wind was hard to bust. Started seeing a lot more deer that way and could get off shots due to not being busted. But I was very robotic. Now I scout like that scene from Star Wars. You know the scene where Luke takes off the face mask and uses his instincts to close the distance and blow up the death star? Hahaha. My point...use a system of scouting to find general trends and then if you see something that peaks your interest, leave your system and go explore. The deer dont have hard and fast rules and if you stay robotic you are going to more than likely miss out on the best hunting opportunities. Be creative. Your brain is the most important piece of equipment you own. So for example you choose the northern section of ridges above a river to scout. Cruise that upper elevation on your way into scout. Run those upper parts of the ravines while also scanning up and down. You see a thicket out on the top part of ridge where there is no other cover present, you just upped your odds. If that same cover corresponds to a terrain that forces deer movement, then you just upped. If all that is lightly or not pressured by other hunters, then you have probably hit a mini jackpot. Once you find "the spot", slow down and pick a tree. Dont be satisfied with w general area. Pick a tree. Mark it with a few slashes from a saw or knife..take a pic of it and upload it into your gps coordinates. Take the extra time to pick that tree. 5 yards can make all the difference. Scout your way in on the top, walk back to your car using the low ground by the water. Look for tracks and beds...yes beds. Those deer are going to move where they arent pressured. They dont live by what we thing the rules should be. They bed to survive. 1..outwork everyone 2...scout hard and use a system to cover ground, but be creative and follow the sign to find "the spot". 3..low hunting pressure, cover, habitat diversity, and terrain features that force deer movement with those same features and you will be in as good a spot as your area offers. 4...pick THE tree. Dont be happy about generalities. 5...about 1/3rd of my hunts are in trees I know well and continue to explore for how good they are...the other 2/3rds of my hunts are brand new in areas I generally have a good feeling about. Moving into spots using a map and scouting in season. Looking for food, trails, etc. Even if you only add 2 to 3 good spots a year after it is all said and done, after 10 yrs of working like hell you have 20 to 30 solid spots. 20 yrs and you have 50 spots that put you into the ballgame with a chance of success. Walk like hell and scout. You burn a spot, screw it. Be aggressive. Like Joe said, use the public land to your advantage. No holding back. Hunt..burn...move...explore...first time in kill...have fun!
Brett brings up a great point about "The tree". I will use my personal hunting style as an example. When I find the sign I'm looking for and ready to hunt a spot. I start to imagine all senero's that can happen. The kill tree is very important thing. I will spend sometimes up to 45 minutes to pick a tree. It's not uncommon to climb a tree and not be happy, to only climb down and get to a better one. A few times I have moved 3 times in one evening sit. Another thing he brought up is the drive to get out there. This is usually #1 thing. Always try and stay positive about the hunt and look at the positive side of a failed hunt. If your don't feel confident in your setup, it's not a bad idea to just get down and go scout. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
A bit ADD today so didn't read all responses, I also hunt private and turned semi " bottom feeder". I stand hunt, though on 73 acres I have 43 sets and never get a chance to use all of them switching up sits. Now in gun I was on my feet moving at camp. Both properties hill country and steep. I concentrated on side hill and edges of gullies. On the top flats of oaks I went to what dropped from thick weed brush pine to a swampy marsh grass and white pine dogwood brush..They would hug that drop off bank. Steep hill the deer tend to cross the hill one elevation to the other. In the bottom where it flattened again they hit any thick apple, thorn apple, buckthorn area. Both hills are west facing, though one is south west(camp) and home north west. That does make a difference in their direction of travel. Camp they'll travel up left to rt. And home they come up rt to left. Bucks hug the gullies, hang near buildings both here and camp. Pines pines are usually a good morning return and heavy snow bet for both those areas.
Joe! Thank you sooo much for taking the time to write all this up, I really appreciate it, while the areas I hunt I don’t feel are quiet as low deer populations as what you describe you are hunting I feel the same way, like looking for a needle in a haystack, this year instead of waiting for the needle to come to me I will be finding the needle! I also couldn’t agree more with the having to let go of areas you’ve hunted before, I think that is going to be one of the hardest things, just trying to look at these properties I’ve hunted for the past decade and a half with a blank canvas perception!! This year is going to be fun and frustrating I am sure! Adam Elite Kure 29.5/70lb CBE Engage Hybrid 3pin Dead Center Dead Level Hunter Kit 8/6in Goldtip Kinetic Kaos 340 Spine 29in TAC driver 275 100gr NAP Killzone 455gr/276fps
Thank you all for the input! I really appreciate the time you all put in answering those questions and I have a lot to learn, I’m working through map scouting now and planning to do a few hikes this week to find some potential new spots! Can’t wait to get started!! Adam Elite Kure 29.5/70lb CBE Engage Hybrid 3pin Dead Center Dead Level Hunter Kit 8/6in Goldtip Kinetic Kaos 340 Spine 29in TAC driver 275 100gr NAP Killzone 455gr/276fps
another thing that I am going to start employing pre- rut: On an AM hunt, if I don't see any buck activity by 0930 I am going to get down and move- still hunt/scout till I find another spot or decide to head in for lunch. The odds of seeing a big buck on his feet at 1030 on Oct 20 are pretty small- he's already hunkered down. So I will be trying to find fresh tracks leading in/out of bedding and pick a spot.
Inside red perimeter- public land (outside is private) - 200 acres red circle X is our camp site double red arrow in lower LH corner is where 2 sections of public meet in a corner- can step from one to the other That SW corner lot is 1600 acres of hardwood, new clear cut, and 15 year old clear cut mixed. I will and do hunt there as well Inside aqua perimeter is a cedar swamp. It is actually dangerous. Very easy to get lost especially in the dark. No cell signal, and one wrong step will sink you down to your crotch in suck mud that will not let you go easily. I got stuck in there dragging out a deer several years ago and almost could not get out Deer go any which way once they're in the swamp but you can pattern where they come in and out Most of the woods outside the swamp are a mix of various oaks with a few pines lavender lines are known mature buck rut ravel routes and directions yellow spots are suspected mature buck bedding based on cameras I have set in the past right on the property line white spots/circled by lavender are my anticipated ambush spots this year My early-season plan? Hit all those white spots w/in 5 days (pending wind.) Get a feel for them. Push hard. Pick trees that I may want to use come late October. Find acorns. I am going to spend Oct 1-5th in this parcel. Won't be back in MI until late October.
Where ever there's an "edge", such as where hardwoods meets swamp, swamp meets field, field meets bedding, bedding meets water, water meets pines or cedars, cedars meet hardwoods, hardwoods meets ag, ag meet clear cut,..etc. Jeff Sturges, as well as many other hunting authors routinely highlight this basic advice... "Whitetail deer are creatures of the edge"- Fred Bear-.
Hunt the edge... Grissly talks about hunting transition edges.. I can't think of anyone else that constantly knocks down big public land bucks the way he does.
Where I hunt edges are the deal. the only problem is, some of these edges go for 400-500 yards or more and it's anyone's guess where they come out of the thickets and how long they stay on the edge before going back in..50/50 crap shoot
