So I am in the process of possibly making my first "real big" purchase in life. Bought my first house about 5 years ago now, ready to sell it and buy some property. I am looking at some prime hunting land with a house and barn on it in Illinois (currently reside in Indiana). It is 30 wooded acres and doesn't "appear" to have been logged in many years - the home/land owner passed away and his son is selling it so he hasn't a clue and I don't want to give him any ideas to log it before he sells it. That said - I haven't a clue myself about "logging", I've done some reading and my understanding is a "select timber harvest" can be very beneficial to hunting land and my wallet, especially after I were to purchase this place. This assumes that the property does have some valuable trees on it. What is my process here guys? Do I hire a forester after I purchase this property? How many trees should I be taking out? Roughly how much cash can I expect to get back (tough question I know)? Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks
I select cut 90 acres 10 years ago that was mostly pulp wood and I got $18000 for that. If you are talking hardwood you can expect more then that. The forester that I hired took 5% of the timber sale so there was no upfront cost and he went through an marked all the trees and did a seal bid for the sale. Mine even dozed me a food plot I won't expect a payday on it but you'll get some cash.
I logged my property (170ac) shortly after I bought it. I had logger/ forester give me an est before I went to contact. I wanted to have a round about idea in regards to what if any I could recoup from logging. I also was buying with a clause that allowed me to not close until I was approved for a simple subdivision. The logging process allowed me to lay out some access roads that would facilitate the subdivision process. The first logging of the property let me clear about 30% of the purchase price. I have planed to re log at the 15 year mark and that's fast approaching...that said market prices are no where near as high as they where I wouldn't be expecting much if any substantial amounts. In fact I may sell the property before I get around to logging it again. The logging did improve the hunting by a lot, it opened up several areas for undergrowth, and the tree tops provide food and cover.
I had my timber select cut in 2011. I got roughly $5K off of 12 acres. This was mostly water and red oaks. From what several loggers told me, timber isn't as valuable as it was 10-15 years ago because lumber isn't selling.
Yeah that maks sense - my dad is in construction so I coulda figured that. When I say he is in construction, I mean he is the partner in a company that is hanging on... Maybe I should wait to do the select harvest? I mean it sounds to be on 30 wooded acres I could expect any where from $5k to maybe $20k?? This gives you an idea of what I'm looking at.
Think closer to $5k than 20k.... Logged about 40 acres 5 years ago, oak and hickory. Was like $8k for selective logging.
No matter what $$ amount you get back, the results for wildlife by opening up the canopy of trees will be priceless!! Something to keep in mind though, if you have only a few acorn producing trees on your land, you may want to mark those as NO CUT trees to insure you have additional natural food sources.
This. Worry less about how much money you can make off the land, and worry more about you can give back.
Who would be someone you could turn to in order to come to a balance? The guys I had really ripped things up and made a mess.
Sure I follow thay logic and that is my overall goal but please understand that I'm trying to "afford" the land - I'm making a significant investment here and I'm trying to get a feel for some sort of a "budget" over the next year or so. I can afford to make payments on a 230k piece of propert but it doesn't give me a whole lot of wiggle room. So to say "worry less about the money" isn't really logical in my mind. I'm 27 years old and not married with no kids - either I buy land now or I don't for another 15 or 20, the money matters even if were just talkin 5 to 10k. It's a win win really.
By all means sycamoretwitch you have to do what is best for you when it comes to this. Any timber at all you take off the property will benefit wildlife, even clear cuts benefit everything from whitetails to grouse and rabbits. A select cut is just that, you or someone you trust to make the decisions go in and decide which trees to take out. Your timber harvester should be there as well so he can give you an idea of a tree's worth. You may decide to take a few big oaks out simply because you have 5 smaller one's in the area that produce just as many acorns, yet you would benefit from the money. Once you decide to buy it then you need to find someone that can help you identify the different types, from that you'll figure out what is your best route to go.
Some pie in the sky logic here...Wanting to give back to nature is all well and good only if you can afford it. And you are rightly trying to decide if you can afford the land....giving back to nature is secondary in my mind to make a sound financial decision. Your on the right track in wanting to understand your purchase and the ramifications that come with it. If there some up side to logging the property then that must be factored in if your on the fence about the purchase. Why not add a clause in your purchase contract that will allow you to have a forester look over the property and give you an estimate and some ideas and options. At least it will give you some more info to make a more informed purchase.
Some advice suggestions about logging land that has some pretty steep hills. Will they be able to get equipment to the trees that they want? How big of a "mess" are they going to make? I've had some people tell me that the logging isn't worth the mess that loggers make? Thanks for all the help guys!
I don't know a whole lot about logging but, my wife's uncle and I select cut Pines, oaks and poplars about 2 years ago on our 30 acres. He brought his equipment down and we went to town. In 3 weekends we made over $1800.00 selling it to a local pallet plant. We left plenty of trees. didnt really change the look of the property other than opening the canopy a little. what it did do is provide some nice bedding areas. seems deer really like to bed in piles of treetops. we also had to make a couple crossings to get the tractor over a branch and you know what that did. perfect funnel. The spring before that he clear cut a 2-3 acre area on his property and it created a nice bedding area that deer travel through our property to get to his. The money was a nice little bonus and went to a good cause but, the deer activity increase has been the real benefit.
We had our land logged years ago and the logger was able to get to some steep areas... but not all. Believe me, if there's a vernier tree on a steep area - they'll do everything in their power to get it. Also, the mess is manageable. We sold the tops to locals who came and cut alot of the downed areas for firewood. We did mark an area 'leave it alone' for bedding purposes... and boy did that ever work for bringing more deer to our property. After cutting the majority of the tops for firewood, the new growth and browse just exploded, and the roads cut sure made it enjoyable to walk through the woods during the year with my wife and dog... just enjoying nature.
The guys I had logging did a good job repairing any ruts they left....they also skidded out some larger fire wood. I had a lot of side hill/ ledge...I asked them to not leave tops on the side hills, they would skid the tree to the nearest ledge and leave the top there. I wanted this for bedding cover. For the most part the did what I asked. Another thing to keep track of is...$$, it's a good idea to be around when they are loading trucks so you have an idea of how many loads are taken out. While its hard to know the value of the wood..it's easy to keep track of the paid invoices...
I'd say get yourself a good forester...they will be able to tell you up front what you can expect as far as return from the composition of your timber stand. They should be able to tell you what product(pulp or logs) is predominant as well as what you can expect to be left. You tell him what you are looking for in the end....what condition you want the land left in, what areas perhaps you would like to have wildlife openings, where you would like to keep canopy cover, release options for mast crop trees, etc. Since I cannot see what the condition of the trees are nor what their species composition is I can't tell you what you would be able to take off the land there nor what you might get for the trees you cut. There are many options and you do not necessarily have to have the whole parcel cut at the same time nor by the same prescription. You may have an area that is predominantly Aspen/Poplar for example, and if mature it should be clearcut for the most benefit all around. If it is hardwood and predominantly oak you may want to be extremely selective and only take perhaps 1 of 4 trees to reduce competition and increase acorn production. With a lot of maples or beech perhaps you want to thin it heavy and end up with thick undergrowth regeneration. As for conditions the loggers can leave it in - that depends often on what equipment they will use, the time of year and how wet it is - we winter log many of the wet areas here so as to have the ground frozen and thereby leave minimal impact from rutting. You can dictate this yourself as to when and how they harvest. As for the tops or residual...how that turns out can also be dictated by you...you can have a chipping operation come in and chip the pulp which will leave only minimal tops/branches but also means that they will be skidding whole trees to the landing which means you will have large main skid routes which can be used later as plots or trails...they will grow back in time but compaction from many trips over the same ground can delay that for a good while. All the options and results that are available is why I recommend having a forester come out and look at the land and set up the contract for you...he will work with you so you know what you are getting and what to expect as well as make sure the logger abides by the contract which should include how much responsility they have to clean up after the harvest.
Awesome feedback - I planed on working with a forester for sure. I've been talking to people trying to find one that local folks reccomend to me. I haven't acquired the property yet - just in the process of so I am trying to make sure I am as knowledgeable of the process before I get started. I've learned a lot just from all of this feedback. Thanks!
