Our home was built in the seventies. Other than a little bit of lime I put on the yard a couple years ago, I'm betting nothing's ever been done to it to help grow a nice lawn. I want to change that, over a year or more. We have an area, now (where my 3D range is) that was about an +/- 6Ksf garden when we moved in. I just leveled the earth the best I could, and let it grow in. It's nothing to brag about, but I do have a gnarly stand of (__________) that grows there, now. It ain't pretty. But, it's green! I'm guessing there's more crabgrass in there than anything else. Outside this are (you'd know this, if you've ever seen any of my harvest photos), there's a ton of clover. I was going to put out a pre-emergent, really soon. But, I "think" I've talked myself into spreading lime, now..........spraying the entire old garden and side yard area with roundup in August........then waiting a couple months; aerify really good (commercial machine - crossing passes); over-seed; lime again. I can then do another round of lime in the spring; THEN do a pre-emergent.....and spot spray as the spring unfolds. Any lawn guys on here? Sound OK?
If you want to do it right, have a soil test done to tell you exactly what you need to put down for whatever type of grass or whatever you plan on planting. You may be wasting your money by putting down the lime if it doesn't need it. If you over do it it can be just as bad as not enough. If you have a lot of fescue, you might want to wait till it cools off some to kill it. It's a cool season grass and goes dormant during intense heat. RU won't do a whole lot. Just a couple random thoughts.
Whoa ... lets start with the lime. Why are you putting it on? And why so much and so frequent? Did you have a Ph test done on your soil? You don't want to put lime in if you don't really need it. Could cause problems you don't want.
I live in NC. I can pretty much assure you of 2 things: 1. My lawn needs lime. 2. I can't put too much down, doing what I'm proposing. We're notoriously and terribly acidic in this area.
Our soil is similiar here and on our farm, might have something to do with all the pines. Regardless a PH test costs next to nothing and takes no time at all. Couldn't hurt to know exactly what you are working with. My dad did a big area on his drainfield. He burned it(he did add lime but only once), broke it up, leveled it, and overseeded the hell out of it. Don't remember the exact timing of it all but it turned out pretty good, and it was a mess(clover, crab grass, bare spots, etc.).
Understood (RE: the test). Help me learn something. Does crabgrass and/or clover thrive better in acidic soil conditions? If not, how will applying lime (at the rates I'm talking) hurt anything? I'm way more interested in how well the killing/over-seeding has worked for others.
Clover does well with nuetral to low acid. Not sure about crab grass. The proper amout of lime helps the plants use the rest of the nutrients avaliable. Most do best with a ph of 6-7. With a reading above or below the plants cant absorb fertilizer as well. So if you do put other fertilizers on you are wasting much of your money and the fertilizer is going to waste. If its green and growing RU will kill it at the proper rate. Some grasses are tuffer than others tho.
I know this. But, thanks for the heads-up. I think we're getting hung up on the PH, though. Even after 3 rounds (over 12 mos), my bet is the PH will still read acidic. I'm not sure I can afford to put "too much" lime on this place (at the rate pelletized lime costs). I'm guessing $200/per application (over the areas I mow).
Well I didnt' realize that about the soils down there. Don't really have to worry about lime up here (that I've come across anyway), the ph levels are generally 6-7. As far as the crabgrass I always treat in the spring with a herbicide product called dimension (active ingredient: dithiopyr). I put it down when soil temps get high 50's low 60's. If you miss by a day or two late it does have some post emergent activity for very young crabgrass. Have had great success with it. As far as overseeding you'll have to wait until the following growing season. The idea behind the product is it actually creates a film or barrier in the first quarter inch of the soil so the crabgrass can't germinate. Flipside neither will grass seed. If there were little areas that you want to baby along you can always scratch the surface in that area to get rid of the barrier from the pre-m. Then cut it in or import fresh soil to seed the area. You just want good seed to soil contact. An area you know you want to seed just don't apply the herbicide there. Be carefull around landscaping and walkways too. Pendimethilum is another good active ingredient for crabgrass control. Then..I'll wait until any broadleafs are popped up, good and healty and loving life and smack them. Any herbicide with 2, 4d in it will work. I use a product called millenium ultra it has a few more goodies in it and wicked good results. It will roast any broadleaf around (including clover). If i'm really concerned about clover and my main target I'll throw a sticking agent in my mixture. Just helps to bond to the weed better. Again.. as with crabgrass control you need to wait to seed until the following growing season. Oh yeah I double dip now and go with a fertilizer and herbicide combined in a granular form when I spread it. It's easier for me rather than loading up the sprayer a zillion times. Also you are getting some fertility in the plant at the same time to help the desireable grass fill in the bare spot left by the weed. Helps mend things up a little quicker. I'm still 50/50 on the broadleaf part. I think my results are slightly better when sprayed because you are delivering it right on the plant, then the plant sucks it in as the product dries. With the granular it tends to fall off the leaf a little more. That's why you do it with the granular on a heavy dew or wet morning. The particle clings better when the plant is wet. And if you go granular you don't want water immediately. Let the herbicide do it's thing and kill the weed. Then go back a day or two later and water the fertilizer portion into the ground. The opposite for the crabgrass control (granular). You want that watered in. Not a lot or it will leech past where you want it. But you actually want to work that into the soil to creat the barrier.
We're a red-clay state, NY (my area.....though the soil in my lawn is devoid of it). I'm not planning on doing anything for crabgrass, this year..............except kill it ALL - when I kill the rest of the area that used to be the garden. I'm not going to do anything to control it, this year. Has anyone killed off an area of their lawn (or golf course) and come back months later to over-seed? If so, what were your results?
You can kill it by putting plastic sheeting over the area. As the sun goes through, it burns/heats the plant life and any roots, seeds that may be in the ground kills it. That way you could seed it at some point without the worry of residual plant killer causing a problem. That's done on gardens to start weed free.
I've had really good success when killing off an area and then reseeding. Just have to go back the next season and wipe out the weeds that may come up. You also don't have to wait a couple months before seeding after using roundup. It doesn't effect the soil therefore won't effect germination. I've wiped out areas and seeded days after. I prefer a week or two if I had the time to get total brown out. While the weeds are dying the new grass is germinating. Of course it's not going to hurt anything by waiting a couple months, but not needed IMO. I also use a walk behind slit seed which is a really good way to overseed. But if you're going to core aerify and overseed like that, that will work too.
RE: the wait.... I "think" (don't know) I'll have a better chance of killing everything (total brown-out...lol) if I do it when it's really hot. That's why I'm thinking August. August, around here.....isn't the time to be seeding grass! Hence my wait time. Thanks. I appreciate the input on the total renovation.
Gotcha. Roundup should knock everything out in it's sight no matter when it's applied. But yeah if you're going for the really want to kill it deader than dead lol, August in NC should have some half dead pretty stressed grass anyway. Would die easier/quicker, but dead is dead.
