I recall back to my days on another forum and some of the really detailed and very knowledgable discussions that occured there on topics concerning bow tuning, etc. Many on there were much more experienced than I was and I learned a great deal from those guys. In fact, some of those same guys are on this board now. I won't single anyone out in case they embarrass easily. Anyway, what I learned from those guys over the years I have applied to my own bows and setups and have went from taking everything to a shop to have done to doing everything entirely on my own. It's quite a rewarding, time saving and money saving accomplishment. Now the real topic and hopefully in depth discussion. As I was working on my new bow the other day, I noticed there were two dots, on each cam that is said to be timing or optimal rotation dots. The cable should lie between these two dots at brace. OK, thats all well and good and an easy way to reference things. Being the tuning freak I am, I got to thinking. These dots were still far enough apart that the cable coule lean toward on dot or another more. So, what if I advance or retard the cams slightly? I realize this well effect everything from draw length, weight, etc. But I'm more looking at this from a performance gain stand point. Would advancing the cam put you more "in" the draw force curve, yielding better performance or vice versa? My initial thought is that it depends on the design of the cam and where the draw force curve lies to begin with. I realize I'm splitting hairs and the gains may only be tiny. But this is what this discussion is about, getting detailed and squeezing every once of performance you can out of the bow. Thoughts?
I think "bow performance" means different things to different people. To most, it seems to me, increasing "bow performance" means increasing speed. That is how they measure bow performance. To me "bow performance" means increasing forgiveness and has little to do with speed. IMO, any gains by advancing/retarding the cams but still staying within your dots would not be noticeable in a hunting setup and probably not be noticeable in a target setup. This is not even taking into account your arrows.
I agree with bruce here except that I believe increasing forgiveness would be advantages,especially in a hunting setup. What you should do is creep tune and see where the bow performs best and try to keep it set there and forget what the chrono says. Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
And to add. Sometimes a bow will hold better in a certain spot for the archer but tune will not change negatively. The ideal situation is having a bow that tunes (creep tunes) and holds best at the same setting. Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
On my personal bows, both stops are off the string a hair. Then I mess with the tiller for group tuning. Personally, I get better results with tiller then going nuts messing with timing. Not to mention a whole easier and quicker. This is the last tuning method I will do.
What Bow are you shooting? Often times the marks are gapped(sp?) to allow for different draw lengths or string post settings. The tuning marks on my PSE are nearly 3/4" apart.
Good points by all. I think for this discussion, lets talk about speed in terms of getting a bow to reach its advertised speed. I recall on a couple of the older Bowtech binaries, for example that if the cams weren't timed properly and were advanced too far, the speed of the bow suffered by as much as 10fps. Twisting of the cables got the cams back to what Bowtech recommended and the bow not only felt better at the shot, but picked up speed. Most companies have a optimal cam position. My guess is there is a little wiggle room here in that you can be a hair on either side of this position and still be good. Is there a balance point on the cam that if you sway to either side of too much, it will negatively effect the speed/performance of the bow? Again, this is purely for discussion purposes as I try to learn more and hear what others have to say.
^^^ I don't necessarily think so. Granted this all thing considered equal, some bows will have a heavier or lighter set of 50/60/70# limbs. A guy can twist your cables to gain more poundage, speed, and increase the "performance" in this sense. Wear and tear on the bow is much higher at this point, obviously. Every bow and shooter is going to have its own sweet spot. I would say that there is a point where you could sway to far or from that point and see negative effects.
To expand on this. Checking your DW is important when tuning a bow. If your limbs are maxed and your 4#'s under.. something in wrong.
I believe these two go kind of hand in hand. I think the sweet spot would be kind of wide in that you have some latitude to increase the speed before the increased speed has an adverse affect on something like consistant accuracy. But I think the sweet spot for increasing speed is rather small before you begin to have an adverse affect on wear and tear. I would err for staying in the wear and tear sweet spot rather than go for speed. Hope that makes sense.
Agreed but I also think if you have 60# limbs maxed and you are getting 64#'s then something is wrong there too.
This will vary from bow to bow and cam system. My Hoyt AM 35 liked to have the top cam advanced slightly(if memory is correct) for best tune. This was tuned on a Hooter Shooter. Seems Hoyt addressed this by using a larger stop peg now. Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Not always but sometimes. When bows have a large draw length range it is common to have the poundage vary., Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
I would forget about tuning cam position for speed and creep tune the bow. That's what matters in a real world situation, not another 5fps......especially for a bow that's going to be shot while you are in less than ideal footing, angles, etc. Make sure it drills the same spot at 30 yards from both the front and back of the valley and then shoot the snot out of it.
I think this would depend on the limb. There is a 60# limb and there is a heavy 60# limb If my bow sticker says 70.4 pounds and my newly rebuilt, maxed out bow is hitting at 72.1# I know I'm over rotated
Actually, this is somewhat true, lol. A bow, such as PSE, can have multiple string posts. Example. My bow was tuned @ 27" on the "+" post. I moved it to 28" on the "-" post. This moved my string loop up(IIRC) nearly 3/4". Also, my poundage went from 70.5# to 76#
Not sure which end you are referencing too, I will elaborate on both. In terms of a heavy "60" pound limb. We have special ordered bows with heavy limbs. Typically this is, in this case, a built 60# limb that will actually max out at 64, 65, etc pounds. As far as my poundage increasing nearly 6 pounds... I should have explained better, it was NOT in tune after the change.
They can be. Think about a youth bow for instance that has 10" of draw length adjustment. At the shorter draw they are lower poundage than at the longer draw. Some companies do a better job making sure the high poundage listed is actually max. Most of my Hoyts have come from the factory maxing at 2# over with factory rigging but hit dead on with custom rigging. However my maxxis came in 4# over and stayed the same with custom rigging.(hated that bow and it tuned like crap) Seems beyond parallel limbs tend do go over a little more. Just an observation on my part. Not sure if this holds true throughout. Many companies state their state, brace and poundage at 30" draw and 70# however those numbers change as the stats change. Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
